"coercion is a crime, here to talk, only if you want".

[TemporaryPosition]

I know I'll be told I am being unreasonable.

But I feel this woman has not done anything morally wrong. To silently hold a sign that says this is not intimidating or harassing and could easily be ignored. I don't think we should arrest someone like this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39vky8wr0do

Abusive behaviour is still abusive behaviour if it's whispered.

Oh for goodness sake. Then your
disagreeing with me is literal violence

If she was a bloke with a restraining order just hovering about near his exes house holding a sign asking to just talk would you have sympathy?

Or would you recognise he was breaking the law by being near his exes house and was trying to be intimidating even if he wasn't screaming and shouting?

She's deliberately been chosen for this stunt in the hope that Vance and the US-based evangelists continue with their misrepresentation if the actual law here.

It's no accident that they chose an elderly lady for this stunt.

I'm not familiar with the clinic or the issue, tbh, but some of the women going in will be terminating a much wanted pregnancy because of a devastating medical diagnosis. Others may have become pregnant in very distressing circumstances. How anyone can think it helps them to stand there moralising at them is beyond me. I think I heard on the news that restraining orders had been issued to specific individuals, so maybe she is one, in which case all sympathy is misplaced. These people are fanatics who care far more about the unborn than the born.

Except I’m not standing in an area that is legally protected, in order to allow women the freedom to access medical support.

Or perhaps you didn’t understand the “ “ around shouting. It may not literally be, but it has precisely the same effect, because it is meant to.

@Wishyouwerehere50 yep. But at the risk of sounding like a 70s feminist -because I am- there is no such thing as a young boot! It's always an ageist insult. No need to reply-there's a danger of derailment.

To be fair I think the OP has pretty successfully derailed her own thread with her last comment.

If she really cared that women were being coerced into abortions then there are plenty of other things she could do to try to help. Volunteer with charities which support victims of coercion. Train to be a therapist. Donate to womens aid.

She is there to physically, visibly, make a point. Her point is that women shouldn't be having abortions. She was in the exclusion zone, she was breaking the law. She can, frankly, fuck off to jail and make her shitty point there.

This woman may have broken the law as it stands but she has only been arrested, not tried. I'd be willing to wager she has backers prepared to take this all the way through the courts process arguing her right to free speech has been disproportionately impinged.

By cracking down on this, they may find the law is binned (or completely de-fanged) altogether.

Oh stop. This is a very poor argument. The visceral biological reaction to people with ill intent ( take sociopaths, narcissists) is actually very physical and studies have proven this causes physical damage with enough exposure. You add in a target who is already vulnerable and potentially low in resilience - the mere presence of this menace is enough to instil significant distress, much like a literal punch in the gut.

This woman - on all levels, even instinctive, her intent is clear. She is not discussing her belief in a setting such as over tea with a neighbour. Her intent is to threaten, intimidate, guilt trip, coerce goodness knows what else. The ball of zygote she does not care for, nor the poor soul hosting it at this stage.

This ladies presence is absolute menace. An exclusion zone is often set up to manage behaviour intended to harass, alarm and distress. And that - by her mere presence - is what she is doing. And she god damn knows it.

It doesn't matter whether you feel she's done something morally wrong or not, the police deemed that she has done something legally wrong by breaching the exclusion zone hence why she was arrested.

@CurlewKate you know I'll go look it up because I think I get what you're saying tbh. I am guilty of using terms that are anti fem without even realising. I hear ya girl seriously 🙏.

Have you anything to add to any of the points that have been made as to why she was arrested, and why she was in the wrong?

I went with a friend who had an abortion many years ago. While I was waiting for her, I will never forget the look on a young woman's face as she saw the protesters outside. They weren't shouting from what I remember but had graphic images and placards. They were very intimidating.

This poor girl froze in the doorway. I ended up stood in front of her eyeline to block the view and calmly said not to worry about them. I felt terrible for her.

It's harassment and I was pleased to see this law.

@Wishyouwerehere50 why are you calling it a zygote? Doesn't the zygote become a blastocyst at about 5dpo, and then an embryo shortly afterwards? I can't imagine anyone getting an abortion at the zygote stage, because you wouldn't even get a positive pregnancy test at that stage? I'm not particularly familiar with the abortion debate, so perhaps this is a commonly used term but it seems politically loaded.
To be clear I am not defending this woman - her actions were appalling. I support women's right to choose, but I think clear language is important.

I started a thread on here last year about the tactics of an organisation called CBR UK who take their message to the High Street using giant banners purportedly showing aborted foetuses to make their point.

I challenged a similar sort of woman displaying similar "faux concern" and in the course of the conversation her religious bias was shown, and also she claimed their presence was because exclusion zones now exist so "where else are they supposed to help women".

These people want abortion made illegal similar to in the States. People like Farage have accepted funding from US based fundamentalist groups, and rest assured will, if allowed, use this incredibly sensitive and emotive topic as a political football with no real care for women at all. Our Nige has already floated the idea that the 24 week limit should be debated as medical interventions have improved and the viability goal posts have shifted.

So when these campaigners break the law, they need to be prosecuted because otherwise the message is that a woman's right to choose, and her bodily autonomy is everyone's business but her own.

And if you want to accuse me of hyperbole, check out a recent documentary called "Young, British and Pro-Life" (I think) which shows a growing mood of evangelism in younger generations. If you think a roll back of the Abortion Act could never happen, you're extraordinarily naive given the current extremist politics running rampant in the world.

all women should be able to have the freedom to access medical support without any one else interfering

Thanks for raising this. It certainly is a day of learning for wishyouwerehere today on MN. It's an opportunity to go look up the most acceptable terminology one applies at each stage of embryonic growth, you're right it's useful to knock that and apply correctly.

You're correct in that my language is highly loaded. My intention is this - the life of the living woman, the lady seeking the abortion, in my worldview is the priority over that which is developing within her. We can argue the semantics all day long. It's kind of irrelevant - I've made the intent very clear -I will always support the position I have that the unborn thing / feotus/ whatever is appropriate, is just not going to trump the protection of the mother here.

I will go read up on the correct vernacular as that's useful to be clear and accurate on. 🙏

Her holding up that banner outside the clinic is not going to help anyone who is in a coercive relationship. If that was her actual concern there would be better and kinder ways to do that. It's just a passive aggressive anti abortion poster and she 100% deserves to be arrested.

People who protest outside abortion clinics in any way are awful people who do not give a shit about women at all.

I fucking hate these people. There was a clinic down the road from where I worked when I worked overseas where they did abortions. The protesters would get right up to the zone and had horrible signs. They were not there every day and when they were I would go in to make a donation, drop off some flowers for staff and tell them how much I appreciated them.

@TemporaryPosition

What would you say if I stood silently outside a nursery that accepts infants/babies holding a sign that says "babies deserve to be at home with their mummies"?

Those who breach exclusion zones are hoping to be seen as martyrs. There have been several similar arrests in recent months. It's particularly worrying that JD Vance is sticking his oar in to this as well., with blatant disinformation and rabble rousing. The world is becoming a very dangerous place right now.

When some of these clinics have probably faced death threats and worse, you can of course understand the fear this woman's presence will illicit. What about the staff and the threat they feel from these people? She might look innocent in her appearance but that does not convey intent.

How can you discern the threat level from these people. You can't. They must be removed.

It doesn't matter if she's shouting or not. She's entered the exclusion zone. She knew what she was doing.

Women attending the hospital for a termination dont need the added stress of these idiots outside.

Standing with signs is passive aggressive and intimidating. I hope the police are there every time one of them breaks the law