To think 10 days off seems a lot in term time?

[winterwonder1]

Call for school term-time holiday fines to be cancelled | Weston Mercury

I don't agree with fines and I think it should be down to more discretion (from both parents and teachers), but I think the campaign might get more support if they'd said 5 days instead?

Yes, it was the same when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. You could have up to two weeks holiday a year. You just had to submit a holiday form.

The issue that drives me mad is that schools arrange holidays and call them educational opportunities. Well each holiday the child goes on is actually educational. If abroad they learn about different cultures ,currencies language and if in Britain they are finding out about another place. I think it is terrible that schools impose fines. Out of all the years of education surely one week away is not so bad.

When I was in school up to two weeks were allowed. My parents took us out for term time holidays nearly every year. I don't remember a lot of other children doing the same so I don't think parents took the piss with it, but my recollection may be wrong.

Now I've moved abroad and there's no fines for taking term time holidays, you just have to ask permission from the head (if its over 3 days and less than 3 months) and see if they approve. I only did it once with DD when she first started school, because she is unfortunately ill at least a few times a year and misses enough school already from that, so I wouldn't want her to miss any more - already had her teacher asking me if she needs tutoring to catch up or any other kind of support because she's missed over 60 hours this year.
But I've heard of families that take term time holidays ever year, even with children in upper school. Its up to the children to catch up with what they've missed though (unlike with sickness when the school will offer help), that one holiday I did with DD, her teacher told me what they would be covering during that time and I made her do the work while on holiday.

On here people always spout about how people can't afford a holiday any other way.
Its bollocks. You don't see kids taken out for a camping trip in Wales in June.

You see a hell of a lot of kids with parents who can comfortably afford a more modest holiday, taken out in term time to go on luxury AI packages to Greece, cyprus etc where they never leave the hotel. Our friends have a household income of £140k, they are taking their two DC out of school to ski in a superb resort in early march because that way it £6k not £12k.

Its sheer entitlement, people who consume a lot of social media, and think just because some very affluent people are off in the 3 valleys, dubai, sani/ikos hotels every year, they should be able to afford this too.

We need to normalise enjoying a simpler more affordable holiday with less plane travel. A ferry or chunnel to france and a village gite in normandy costs far less.

*If we take your example of a week in Lanzarote, then it could look like this:

• child experiences a plane ride
• child experiences local (often tastier and fresher) ingredients and dishes
• child swims every day in the pool and the sea
• child sees geography completely different to the UK. They see in real life a volcanic island which is also an UNESCO site
• Child may go on some day trips around the island and learn about a different culture
• child hears locals speaking in Spanish
• child eats all meals around a table with their family
• Child is prioritised over work, household chores and life admin by parents. They experience family time where the parents can relax and be fully present
• child sees a different environment that they may aspire to live in when they are older. They appreciate there are different jobs on offer around the world other than the ones they see every day in their home town.*

Honestly what rot

• we shouldn't be encouraging plane travel
• child is likely to be eating shit buffet food in an AI, or a kids menu featuring pizza or nuggets
• yes child might swim but there are pools in the uk.
• most uk children visiting lanzarote aren't even aware its volcanic & never leave the hotels
• eating meals together around a table - the people who don't do this at home tend not to do it on holiday either
• plenty of children are not prioritised, they are sent to kids clubs!

I think they should scrap the fines. I guess its easy for me though as I knew my kids could catch up, and we only ever took a couple of days before end of term. I know the whole attendance is linked to good outcomes, but DD has under 70% attendance in year 9, and left year 11 with 12 grade 9’s. But assume that’s not the norm, and generally attendance and attainment are closely linked. I think 5 days a year should be permitted.

One more year for me and I can go in term time. Due to large gap between DS1 and DS2 I have been in the expensive holiday era for 27yrs and counting. So 28 by the time DD leaves. Though she will then be at uni for 3yrs but if I wanted to take her away i’d take her in June or September. Cannot wait, no more August holidays. Whoop.

That's how it works in many places in the world.

Personally I think allowing time away is difficult because you also don’t know if your child will be unwell for a few days here and there in the same school year. My oldest had 100% attendance in reception but had a bunch of things early in year one (chest infection, vomiting etc) that went round the class. Not her fault and totally normal illnesses. So she had 4 days across those things and she had some hospital appointments.

So I support the rules as they are because you never know when your child will be poorly. Holidays on top can really add up. Plus agree that if you had ten days that would be the goal for some, then sickness on top.

we only have one uk holiday for a week a year but try to have time off in the holidays all together just at home.

If you come from a culture where every distant acquaintance is invited and the celebration goes for days, quite a lot!

If we went to a family wedding it would be at least a week as we are immigrants so it would be a couple days of travel for us.

We took the kids out for two weeks once - went back to see our families for 4 weeks after Covid. My children hadn't seen their grandparents for 3 years and we decided it was a priority. We had to get permission from the council with a support letter from the headteacher. Kids were 5 and 8 at the time. I'd never do this length now that my daughter is in high school but we have pulled them for a day to get startlingly cheaper flights a few times over the last 8 years. Fridays are half days here so they miss minimal school and we'd only do it once a year max.

I'm in Scotland so no fines but you need permission. Not entirely sure what happens without as I'm an intense rule follower!

Well, exactly, but you are accused of snobbery if you say that.

I also agree that it's social media driving a lot of this. Children do not need a (or multiple) foreign holidays each year. And, as with everything else in the world at the moment people just cry 'privilege' for people who only take holidays outside of term time, so they can retain a sense of victimhood whilst lying in the sun and drinking cocktails when their kids should be at school.

How on earth do you think head teachers have time to collect all that information and make a decision for every parent that wants to take their child on a term time holiday?

As a teacher, I don't agree with fines and think it should be up to the parent. However there should be no expectation that a teacher will provide work or contribute to your child catching up.

I don't agree with fines at all. It's absurd parents don't have the autonomy to take their own kids out of school for a holiday.

There already is a system which uses some discretion. Headteachers are allowed to authorise termtime leave in 'exceptional circumstances'. Mine had 2 days termtime leave authorised to attend a wedding abroad (wedding on the Saturday, rehearsal on Friday and my DD's were flower girls) where it had to be brought forward due to grooms mum not having long to live. I would have taken them whether authorised or not, but I appreciated the heads compassion in authorising it.

Schools like to tell you they have no flexibility which is the issue. I got fined for 1 day and DC’s attendance was 100% up until that point. I happily paid as in total travelling a day later cost £4k more and we got an extra day with family.

Having read the responses I think many of you are right. There's a big difference between parents who can't be bothered to send kids to school, pupils who are struggling because they have SEN or medical issues and term time holidays, and lumping them all together isn't helping anyone.

I suspect because there'd be a lot of "funerals" to attend if it was not fineable.

Which is no real answer at all, since there's not a chance in hell of it happening.

The problem with using discretion is that if the Smiths find out that the Jones got a week off with no fines, and they got fined. The Smiths would be complaining about it loudly to the head teacher.

Its bollocks. You don't see kids taken out for a camping trip in Wales in June.

Erm, yes you do. My neighbours did just that last year, albeit it was a caravan not a tent. Go and spend some time at a Haven or Parkdean during June or July. It will not be empty of school aged kids!

I think the bollocks people tell themselves "it's a cultural experience" deserve the fine. Anyone who spouts that should just receive automatically the max penalty. You can get a very cheap cultural experience during school holidays, we are on one now in southern Europe at £150pp for a week (flights and accommodation) it's not warm enough to sit around a pool drinking but we are here to see the country so that doesn't bother us. We also have a trip across 3 different countries booked for Easter at £250pp including two days in a luxury spa hotel, the rest of the time sightseeing etc. Those of us genuinely paying for the cultural experience are not paying over the odds to sit on a sunlounger in Spain complaining about the quality of the bacon in the fry up.

I've seen several sad face Disney holiday fines. They wanted to go to Disney (usa) - fair enough, it's a popular/exciting destination - but couldn't afford to go in the holidays.
But it's not as if they couldn't afford to go anywhere at all. Going to Disney at any time of year requires a fairly hefty budget, so quite possibly have gone somewhere else or had very budget holidays for several years, to save up.
I also know people who take term time holidays to go skiing which is just one of several holidays the kids have per year, although the others are in the school holidays.

I do get it if a workplace doesn't allow AL during school holiday period (in the same way a teacher can't take a term time holiday) but for those who have a choice, if they are working parents, doesn't that just leave more childcare cover over the school holidays if you've taken a holiday in term time?

Shame really because our attitude to skiving off work is completely different.

On MN we seem to have far more supporters of holidays in term time. Quite a lot of jobs don't accommodate this approach. I work for a uni, so even some 1/2 term hols are not possible. Also, there are a lot of jobs where people need to plan leave months in advance. Most of them wouldn't be able to do a term time holiday either.

True, plus it can cost a fortune for summer clubs and advance planning

Mmm I dunno about the last line actually, some of the workplaces with the most restrictive leave requirements are the ones where it's hardest to get the school holidays off. So not sure it's a 'most' there. You perhaps know that in many workplaces, they can only have a certain number off at any one time which makes things difficult if a lot happen to be parents.

There's a huge amount of variation in jobs. Some people are like you and work in term time roles. Others are in seasonal holiday work themselves, and time off in the summer in particular is like gold dust. Some are in the army. The difference is that some of these groups are better accommodated by the requirement to be in school every day than others.