To think people who live paycheck to paycheck on high salaries are just bad with money?

[QuirkyOchreOP]

If you’re making £50k+ and still struggling, isn’t that just a budgeting issue?

Well, as a single parent with no benefits (except child benefit), living in outer suburbs London £50.000 is a distant dream!

Family help - we are very lucky - means we have a three bedroomed semi rather than a two bedroom flat. We had a two bedroom flat for several years because that's what I could afford.

@Baital for plenty on 50k the idea of a 3 bed semi is a distant dream & they would love family help 😆

Wouldn’t afford private school on a £50 k salary here in the south east. Schools here are average £20-£30k per year now.

I agree about myself. I have a good salary and overspend each month because I am bad at budgeting. I have a large credit card debt. I want to do better but have always been like this and feel too tired to cook a lot of the time so waste loads on take aways and pre-prepared food. I need an overhaul. It is hard though.

I'm in London. That is just half a years rental where I am!

@thrive25 whilst I agree with most of your post wage aren’t stagnant in our economy. In fact they are outstripping inflation by a long way. And National minimum wage and NI are killing small business. I appreciate your comment may be more individual - in which case I’m sorry - but raising UK wages further isn’t the answer. This will only result in more redundancies.

@Plantymcplantface I thought wages had risen in recent years but still behind where they should be?

I don't think anyone on 50k will be sending their kids to private schools..
Yes, technically I could still live in houseshare at the age of 40+ or continue living in my ex's spare bedroom which is what I was doing after separation and before buying my (shared ownership) house. Yes, I could cancel every single thing I pay for, every holiday I go on etc. But having been brought up in poverty, I don't think this is much of a life.
The problem is that 50k doesn't stretch far today. It doesn't buy you any luxuries which are "beyond your means". It just about pays for basics.
And don't say "move up north"... Unless you live up north and happy for all of us to move to your neighbourhood.

Ridiculously goady post and note OP hasn't been back.

Depends what you mean about paycheck to paycheck. I earn £100k+ but sometimes say to friends in the last week of the month that I won’t be going out again until payday, or hold off buying something until payday.

I put £1,500 a month into my pension and save £1,400 a month into an ISA. It’s not that I don’t have the money a week before payday, it’s that I budget a month to month and I will not take money out of savings to do something frivolous - I either have free money left that month or I don’t. No one would know that though, living “paycheck to paycheck” is how I’m good with money.

Where?

I did for many years. Two children, single mum, no help from their dad meant I either worked part time or all money went on childcare (which in school holidays it did)
I wasn't bad with money, in fact I was good at making it last and planning cheap days out with picnics. Sometimes people are forced into living that way and it doesn't mean they can't budget

You are absolutely wrong on this

Some wage inflation post Covid (which has now gone), but it’s no where near real inflation in goods and services or meeting the increase in housing costs (which is most people’s biggest expense)

so many papers out there: here is one
https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/pay-packets-worth-less-2008-nearly-two-thirds-uk-local-authorities-tuc-analysis-reveals#

anecdata: sold my ‘single girl’ flat during the pandemic. Asked estate agent who’d buy it: he told me they’d be someone like me when I bought it , but a couple not a single as singles can’t buy flats in London any more. Which is true as wages not kept up with costs

A fee sectors had nice pay rises in 2022/3 the post Covid shuffle but real living standards in this country are way down since 2008, because salaries have not kept pace with costs

Well a 50k salary after tax and 2k per month nursery fees results in very little left

London - when you’d need 700k plus to buy a 3 bed house

Say 15% deposit (100k), 3.5k mortgage

on that money you’d clear 5.5k a month (single earner). No benefits/discounts

so 2k after housing, pay utilities, CT, food… car payment ? Insurance? Kids expenses?

you are not going to be going to the Maldives on that

I think lower earners totally forget the 40pc tax, and if you are a single income household it’s a killer

I was earning similar to this for a while: couldn’t afford a week away in France etc let alone take a whole family skiing!!

it’s housing & childcare that cost a lot

So many people on this thread saying that you have to judge income against outgoings, and 50k isn't much if your outgoings are too high. But what do you think it means for a person to be "bad with money"? That they're burning banknotes on a garden bonfire?

Whether you're "good" or "bad" with money is all about being able to match your outgoings to your income. I can believe that some people on £50k in some parts of the country will struggle, depending on their circumstances. But there must be an income level above which it's possible for anyone to live "comfortably" if they make sensible spending decisions.

You wouldn't feel sorry for someone with an annual income of £10 million because they had committed to rent a house for half that and lease a yacht for the rest and had nothing left for a private jet. For others, complaints about the cost of live-in nannies or school fees or holidays in Mauritius are the equivalent of this: things that are so far out of reach, and so tempted from their lived experience, as to being unrealistic. Comfortable would mean being able to afford the same lifestyle with a bit left over, not changing everything.

We are talking that it's had for one person in 50k

I don't think it's unreasonable for someone on an above average salary with a husband also on a wage to marry and have kids

I don't think it is then unreasonable if he has an affair , assaults or otherwise abused her , for her to leave him ; and she will then struggle through no fault of her own whilst on a good income

Take the alternative set up of 2 working people on o only average wage 35k total family income is 4,800 ( plus a bit in child benefits)

2000 for child care
1800 for rent
Leaves 1000 for everything else - food council tax, energy bills, transport and comms - not a lot of clothes and haircuts

comfortable would be twice that - 2000 a month- one on 50k and one one 35k perhaps

They should probably be able to cope but it will be horrible tight - the nursery fees shouldn't be that high for long and ideally they should have saved for that well known expense

@CasperGutman : what is comfortable though?

• secure housing with maybe (gasp) a bedroom for each child over some age between 6-11
• running a (used) family car if you don’t live in a city with amazing transport: to go to work as much as anything
• a reasonable diet (not just pasta, porridge, potatoes)
• nursery for little kids, an activity or 2 for school age kids
• basic clothes (supermarket etc), some toys, a family day out now and again

None of this is a luxury!

This would be and is out of reach for many families and singles on this income level - especially if 1 earner, separated, illness or bereavement etc

The cost of living has gone up so much recently that living standards have dropped way back

Bedroom for each child is luxury, as are paid activities.

I nearly qualified my post my saying excluding SEND but to didn't want to make it too long. Completely agree, I'm a SENCO and the provision for some children in mainstream can be awful.

This is a good point which I was thinking about the other day. It was quite routine to share a room until about 15/20 years ago, now I know many families with 2 children maxing out to buy a 3 bed who haven’t even considered that a 2 bed might be sufficient if the rooms are a good size.

And actually sometimes if people have become single parents through no fault of their own then that will make things super tight.

You're right most people I know get by fine on half of that. Be ready for all the mortgaged to the hilt five holidayers a year to moan at you though

I had my own bedroom after age 7/8 and went to Brownies … I’d want the same for a child and don’t consider that a luxury

A teenager sharing a bedroom with a younger child is just a recipe for a stressful home

Yes, YABU
My DS doesn't get any assistance with Uni fees so there's £750 pm, my other DS cannot afford to live on his own very low income so we top him up approx£350 pm to help with energy costs. One DS still lives at home on an apprenticeship and DD just going into 6th Form. 2 cars as we live Rural approx£700 with fuel and maintenance, and mortgage now at just over £2000 pm! Our own energy costs of approx £350pm, council tax £300pm and that's before we think about general living, food, clothes broadband pets etc. Not to mention up here in Scotland there are additional tax bands that means I pay £40k in tax a year!! Yes, I've worked hard in my career and have a salary most dream of but in this country the more you earn, the more the government take!