To think people who live paycheck to paycheck on high salaries are just bad with money?

[QuirkyOchreOP]

If you’re making £50k+ and still struggling, isn’t that just a budgeting issue?

I think you must be on a very low salary to consider £50k wealthy. I’m a nurse and that’s my salary and no one would think I’m wealthy. People on very low salaries often have UC and contribution for rent and childcare which amounts to ££££ that on £50k you’d pay out of pocket.

Are you serious?! 🤣

People saying outgoings are important, but arnt a lot of outgoings part of the point? You ARE bad with money if youre living beyond (or just at, paycheck to paycheck) your means and thats why your outgoings are high.

With some exceptions... Youve chosen where you live, and how big your mortgage was/how much you spent on the house, kids going to private school (heck, having kids at all, really) cars on finance etc. Making bad financial decisions or living beyond your means is part of being bad with money.

As said, there are some exceptions. If youre reading this and feel defensive, maybe youre an exception who didnt have much choice in the above things... or maybe youre feeling defensive because youre not an exception, and you know youre choosing/have freely chosen high outgoings...

YABVU
At around that level you often get no benefits at all.
If you’ve got childcare expenses and a mortgage, that could easily write off your entire monthly salary- plus mortgages have risen hugely recently.
You may say that this is really bad planning, but it only takes illness, an unplanned pregnancy, a few unexpected large expanses and the costs of everything to rise to tip the balance on that salary.

What are your circumstances? I find these posts are usually made by people who have received a leg up, bought property in the 1990s or have never needed to pay nursery fees.

@Agix well no one is paying school fees & mortgages on 50k.

How can younger people control rents or a lack of social housing?

People already aren't having dc because of money.

£50k isn't high, if you have a mortgage, rent, childcare etc you will be in the sweet spot (or rather not so sweet) of no help from benefits but not earning much more than the threshold for childcare help. As a single income you also pay proportionately more tax of course too.

Our expenses are far less than that, mortgage free, no childcare, as everyone is saying, it depends

We make around 55k as a household. I wouldn't say we struggle, but we do live paycheck to paycheck in the sense that we'd really struggle if we missed a month of income for some reason. We've spent our savings on a deposit and between mortgage repayments, nursery costs and bills, we have around £300 leftover for savings or days out.

I don't think that I'm bad with money. I think that life is expensive.

I strongly disagree. Having little safety net and still choosing to have children and a mortgage doesn't make you bad with money. It makes you someone able to prioritise value in your life. I chose to have DC because they bring immeasurable joy to my life. I'd rather have children than savings. I chose to invest in a mortgage because I see it as investing in my future. It means I live paycheck to paycheck now, in the hope of not having any housing expenses in retirement.

£50k is double my income as a single parent. I’d manage fine on that, it would be amazing to have so much to save. Yes, people on high incomes who can’t save are bad with money because if they wanted to save they could make choices that allow them to do so. Those on low incomes haven’t got choices as their necessities take everything.

Depends where you live too. I earn top 5 percent in the country, but my rent is over 50% of my salary. My outgoings are huge. A smaller property wouldnt save that much as ita too expensive here. I can't move due to schools. I spend a fortune on childcare, holiday clubs, tutor, music lessons. I buy myself nothing and shop in lidl.

But (if you don’t mind my asking and feel free not to respond), do you receive a UC top up or other benefits?

Yes, people on high incomes who can’t save are bad with money because if they wanted to save they could make choices that allow them to do so

🙄

Those on low incomes haven’t got choices as their necessities take everything.

Why can't they make the choice to get a better job?

I earn just over half of that, if I struggle then it's entirely my own fault and I need to stop spending it all on Sky TV and luxuries I can't afford and I need to move to a cheaper area, regardless of anything else, not have children I can't afford and stop buying take away coffees, cut my cloth accordingly and take responsibility for myself and my poor choices. And if I can't or don't want to do any of the above, I'm making excuses.

Struggle on twice that and it's all not fair and because of the cost of living and never a result of choices made, and the reasons for not moving or anything else suggested are never excuses, but reasons.

Funny that.

If you earned half that, and had a couple of kids, you would likely be entitled to a very generous UC top up (£600 per month according to a generic calculation I just did).

It’s the squeezed middle, innit. Worst salary band to be in is £50-60k imho. Better earn less and keep child benefit surely.

That and cost of housing. Some of the mortgages and monthly rent payment on this thread are eye watering. It used to be possible to stick to the rule of thumb of no more than 30% of salary on housing costs but those days seem long gone. In fact, housing and childcare are broken systems aren’t they. Perhaps Mumsnet needs to gather and lobby on the latter….

Exactly

outer London, tiny 2 bed houses on my street cost 2k a month to rent

if you are taking home £3k it doesn’t leave a lot of room in the budget after utilities, food, running a car/train etc to get to work

never been eligible for benefits myself snd would really struggle long term to make it work on that

Out of curiosity, I recently looked at what it would cost me to buy a 3 bed maisonette in zone 2. The mortgage would have been 3.5k a month!!!! So you'd have to earn more than 50k for that. And it's really hard to imagine what you'd have to earn to pay that, and have much disposable income - but if you did it you would in theory have an asset that would make you loads more money down the line. I can imagine some people would do that. But that version of "struggling" is very, very different to someone who is "struggling" without a million pound asset and no way of ever getting one!

If I was on 50k and struggling with a couple of kids I chose to have, then it's because the cost of living is too high, not because of a choice I made.

On just over half of that I'm not supposed to have those children to need the generous top ups because that's my choice to do so, and irresponsible.

I can well believe people are struggling on 50k in the current climate, but let's not pretend that their own choices haven't contributed towards that struggle, in exactly the same way someone on half of that does.

Either the cost of living is too high for everyone under a certain bracket, and that's the problem, or people are making choices they can't afford and that's the problem.

It's one rule for the 'squeezed middle' and another for those below it when it comes to the root cause.

Yes, I’m terrible with money. However, I live paycheck to paycheck because: mortgage is £1,400 a month, gas and electric is £488 a month (very badly insulated house - trying to save up to sort that), my commute costs me around £1,200 a month (cheapest I can get for the 5 hour round trip a day and no, I don’t want to stay away from my family for multiple days), I occasionally do have to stay where I work, which is another £200 or so a month. Then there are the water rates (I switched to a water meter which saved a lot but still not cheap), council tax on Band D, food for the household (I batch cook and take food into work - rarely eat out, don’t drink and don’t smoke), cat food, healthy pet club, pet insurance, buildings/content insurance, critical illness cover/life insurance, plumbing and drainage cover, home emergency cover, boiler cover, breakdown cover, car insurance, MOT/servicing, membership for my professional body and CPD courses so I don’t get kicked off, monthly dentist payment (spent 10 years on NHS waiting lists before cracking and going private because my teeth were going to fall out), mobile phone (only £22.50 a month with unlimited data which I need to work effectively on my commute). Phone/broadband at home. I don’t have a gym membership - I work out at home in my living room or go out for a walk. I do splash out £27 a year on a Private Eye subscription but I feel like that’s not the worst vice 😂

Take home pay for two people on just over £50k is around £5,500 when you take student loan and pension contributions off. Enough to pay the bills? Sure. Enough to save money? No, not really. Money saved goes on Christmas and birthday presents for friends and family, and occasionally getting my hair done, going for a meal with my other half or buying some new clothes when they fray/shoes fall apart (cats are hell on clothing 😂).

Love to sell the house but we’d go into negative equity - really can’t afford it. Love to get a job closer but none have come up in the last couple of years, despite looking.

Sorry for the essay - but this is the reality for where the money goes, and we don’t even have kids. If we did, we’d be screwed as we wouldn’t qualify for child benefit. And I’m permanently welded to moneysavingexpert.com. I had way more disposable income when I was on £27k a year, living in a flat in central Leeds working an admin role 😂

You’d also have had to save the deposit … lower income families (especially those who rent but don’t get benefits) really can’t get ahead, especially in the SE due to stagnant wages,ridiculous housing costs, and astronomical childcare prices on top

plus our tax system is broken

meh, we earn £110,000 and we aren't swimming in cash. Mortgage is £3k a month for starters

You do realise that mortgages have gone up hundreds of pounds for some people through no fault of their own? Coupled with the cost of living increases on everything else. People can easily have bills of £500-1000 more than they did a couple of years ago. My partner is incredibly financially astute and so far we've fixed our mortgage at the lowest possible rate as far as possible but we have one element due for renewal this year and it all easily jump £300+.

meh, we earn £110,000 and we aren't swimming in cash. Mortgage is £3k a month for starters

Ouch