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Council spends £8000pa on a taxi due to VAT on private schools

1000 replies

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 17/02/2025 08:10

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14403627/Labours-VAT-raid-teenage-girl-private-school-council-fund-8-000-taxi-bill.html

So now a place is being taken up in an overscribed school, a 15 year old has had her eduction severely disrupted and the local council has 8k less in the pot.

Well done Labour!!! One of many stories, i'm sure and so predictable.

OP posts:
Noideawhatiam · 17/02/2025 20:59

I'm not really understanding why so much of this thread is focused on VAT for private schools, while that is the reason for the child leaving her previous school it's got absolutely nothing to do with the parents decision to choose the state school that they did.

Araminta1003 · 17/02/2025 20:59

Quirks of the academy system, entirely known to the DFE and should be known to Labour, if they had any clue whatsoever! In addition, to the fact that many academies will welcome high attaining privileged kids, if they can, within the rules, somehow. Entirely logical and obvious to most of us, except seemingly, those in “charge”.

mewkins · 17/02/2025 21:03

Araminta1003 · 17/02/2025 20:52

“I'm not sure that the council could have offered her a place at a closer school after she had already taken up the place at the school of her choice.”

Wouldn’t anyone have to first make a formal inyear application to their local LA? And if the LA decides to ignore it and not find a school place within a reasonable timeframe it is on them? Perhaps the law needs clarifying. At the moment, LAs are not treating private school applicants who still have a school place as urgent. However, any private school applicant who has given written notice to their private school should be prioritised as an immediate priority like kids moving into the area. If the LAs fail to do this, there will be transport appeals and people will game the system applying to the best academies which will be happy to make places for privileged high attaining kids. If the LAs and Labour do not realise this, then that is their inefficient and stupidity.

The LA can only process an in-year admission if the application is made. Theyte not nind readers. And yes, your last bit outlines exactly what this family has done, I'd say. There's no chance they'd have got a place at this school in year 7 as they'd have been too far away. As luck would have it, they've now gained a place by stealth.

Plantatreetoday · 17/02/2025 21:03

Araminta1003 · 17/02/2025 20:59

Quirks of the academy system, entirely known to the DFE and should be known to Labour, if they had any clue whatsoever! In addition, to the fact that many academies will welcome high attaining privileged kids, if they can, within the rules, somehow. Entirely logical and obvious to most of us, except seemingly, those in “charge”.

Agree
It obviously helps to be in the system though, which those in charge don’t seem to be.

TENSsion · 17/02/2025 21:06

Girl gets a place at a state school.
Girl lives far enough away to receive free transport to said school.
Girl is provided with transport.

Good.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 17/02/2025 21:06

CurlewKate · 17/02/2025 20:35

@BustopherPonsonbyJones
I'll try to explain my position. I have to make it clear that I am starting from a position of political and philosophical objection to private education-and a belief that it is wrong for it to be VAT exempt.
Moving on. I don't think that waiting to apply VAT would have made any difference to the preparedness or otherwise of parents. Anyone who was aware of what was going on would have known it was happening and made plans-many parents did. And some schools absorbed some or all of the fee increase. Drawing the process out would not have made any difference. There are plenty of state school places available. And of course there will be the occasional hiccup. There is when any new legislation is introduced. There appear to have been remarkably few, however.

As for the lady in the Mail- I have no issue with her getting school transport. However, I do question whether she is acting in good faith. If she had genuinely wanted her child to have a place at a school close to home, she would have put her name on the waiting lists at local schools. But she didn't. I suspect she was delighted that there were no places available-she could then get a place at the school she wanted. And because her case was all about making a point, she made it as public as possible. Using her child in a way that I think most of us would find distasteful. Have I addressed all your points?

Incidentally, I suspect that the LEA knew perfectly well what she was up to-which is why her initial application for transport was turned down.

I understand that you are ideologically opposed to private schools. I wish everyone could see that this whole policy is based on ideological opposition and not financial consideration. On this basis, I am very happy for the family to gain as much financial compensation as possible, as this decision was forced upon them by others. I do not see this as a policy which has gone smoothly. It is affecting many, many people and will continue to do so. The impact on those working in private schools (not just teachers) and providing services for private schools has barely been discussed and this will be a growing problem as more schools announce closures. Surely your ideological opposition could have focused on actually improving state education rather than punishing private education?

I don’t like how they have used their child in the publicity but, at 13, she could have refused. I hope she was given the choice.

Burnoutforever · 17/02/2025 21:07

Noideawhatiam · 17/02/2025 20:53

How could they have done that if they weren't informed of the need for a place?

Precisely I think she flew under their radar till she wanted something from them.

Burnoutforever · 17/02/2025 21:07

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 17/02/2025 21:06

I understand that you are ideologically opposed to private schools. I wish everyone could see that this whole policy is based on ideological opposition and not financial consideration. On this basis, I am very happy for the family to gain as much financial compensation as possible, as this decision was forced upon them by others. I do not see this as a policy which has gone smoothly. It is affecting many, many people and will continue to do so. The impact on those working in private schools (not just teachers) and providing services for private schools has barely been discussed and this will be a growing problem as more schools announce closures. Surely your ideological opposition could have focused on actually improving state education rather than punishing private education?

I don’t like how they have used their child in the publicity but, at 13, she could have refused. I hope she was given the choice.

Seems the only choice she was given was lose your home or leave your private school

Burnoutforever · 17/02/2025 21:08

Araminta1003 · 17/02/2025 20:59

Quirks of the academy system, entirely known to the DFE and should be known to Labour, if they had any clue whatsoever! In addition, to the fact that many academies will welcome high attaining privileged kids, if they can, within the rules, somehow. Entirely logical and obvious to most of us, except seemingly, those in “charge”.

Yes that really long waiting list certainly moved fast !

BlueSilverCats · 17/02/2025 21:09

TENSsion · 17/02/2025 21:06

Girl gets a place at a state school.
Girl lives far enough away to receive free transport to said school.
Girl is provided with transport.

Good.

Edited

It's all about the mum and Labour though isn't it?

Not good.

TizerorFizz · 17/02/2025 21:11

This still boils down to schools not having places and dc having to have places at schools. LAs cannot plan for this. Parents are pushed into a corner. Undoubtedly the schools were full nearer to home or they definitely would not pay transport costs!

Where I live, if you go to one of the grammars, but go past an “all ability” school on the way, you pay for transport. Therefore it seems no school on the way could have had a space. Sitting on a waiting list isn’t a place.

Noideawhatiam · 17/02/2025 21:13

TizerorFizz · 17/02/2025 21:11

This still boils down to schools not having places and dc having to have places at schools. LAs cannot plan for this. Parents are pushed into a corner. Undoubtedly the schools were full nearer to home or they definitely would not pay transport costs!

Where I live, if you go to one of the grammars, but go past an “all ability” school on the way, you pay for transport. Therefore it seems no school on the way could have had a space. Sitting on a waiting list isn’t a place.

The school the child attends didn't have a place either, but it's the only one the mother bothered to apply for a join the waiting list.
If she had applied, been turn down and them appealed for a close school she would have very likely been admitted to one of those

CrispieCake · 17/02/2025 21:13

Araminta1003 · 17/02/2025 20:57

Well then perhaps the Labour Government who had this brilliant VAT idea should have implemented a system where you also have to apply to the LA for all inyear transfers as well as to the schools directly? So the LAs can plan and avoid transport costs? It is hardly rocket science!

Indeed. A more standardised approach to both admissions and education itself in the state sector might restore confidence.

The system is completely screwed up. There are so many inconsistencies between schools that there's no such thing as a "standard" state education. Parents really can't be blamed for playing the system to the best of their abilities to ensure their kids have a decent education.

For the price of your taxes, your kids can get an education to rival any private school at a top grammar, a 'bog standard' education at a normal comp, indoctrinated in a religious horror show, left to survive as best they can in an anarchist hellhole or be dehumanised in one of those awful 'zero tolerance' academies that are so popular nowadays. It is one big mess for parents to deal with.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 17/02/2025 21:13

Burnoutforever · 17/02/2025 21:07

Seems the only choice she was given was lose your home or leave your private school

To be fair, if that was the choice, that was the choice. The Labour government put the policies into place which made that decision necessary.

HellofromJohnCraven · 17/02/2025 21:16

When we moved, the LA used the fair access protocol to offer dd a place in the nearest school. Ant other school they would have had to pay transport as the next nearest was 5 miles away. It was clear in the docs we had that no school place could be offered without considering the cost of transport. Fortunately dd was over the infant rule.
So, if the la had been more pragmatic in placing the child they could have avoided the whole issue

Burnoutforever · 17/02/2025 21:19

HellofromJohnCraven · 17/02/2025 21:16

When we moved, the LA used the fair access protocol to offer dd a place in the nearest school. Ant other school they would have had to pay transport as the next nearest was 5 miles away. It was clear in the docs we had that no school place could be offered without considering the cost of transport. Fortunately dd was over the infant rule.
So, if the la had been more pragmatic in placing the child they could have avoided the whole issue

I don’t think they knew about her until
the mother put a request in for transport for a school she had already started

Lavenderflower · 17/02/2025 21:36

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 17/02/2025 13:42

But they might have been able to get to the next stage of education (sixth form) and found a place in a college closer to home. As a previous poster said, the government rushed this policy through in six months which shows their mindset.

I would say they would have been cutting it finely.

Bringmefood12 · 17/02/2025 21:41

The whole system is is wild
my Daughter is starting a private school for year 7 as they could no find her a place in a state school plus transport

80k a year it’s going to cost them !

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 17/02/2025 21:48

Bringmefood12 · 17/02/2025 21:41

The whole system is is wild
my Daughter is starting a private school for year 7 as they could no find her a place in a state school plus transport

80k a year it’s going to cost them !

Is that via an EHCP?

Plantatreetoday · 17/02/2025 21:51

Bringmefood12 · 17/02/2025 21:41

The whole system is is wild
my Daughter is starting a private school for year 7 as they could no find her a place in a state school plus transport

80k a year it’s going to cost them !

How will it cost £80k
Cheltenham ladies and Brighton are the priciest with boarding but none are anywhere near @£80k

Or does this include flights or something 🤔😀

or what @OhCrumbsWhereNow said. Although the figures still don’t stack up

StrivingForSleep · 17/02/2025 22:04

@Plantatreetoday it may be an independent special school or a non-maintained special school. These can be incredibly expensive. Some are far more than £80k.

Bringmefood12 · 17/02/2025 22:13

Plantatreetoday · 17/02/2025 21:51

How will it cost £80k
Cheltenham ladies and Brighton are the priciest with boarding but none are anywhere near @£80k

Or does this include flights or something 🤔😀

or what @OhCrumbsWhereNow said. Although the figures still don’t stack up

Edited

The fees are 65k with VAT plus transport and additional costs for senco and occupational therapy .

LondonLawyer · 17/02/2025 22:18

Plantatreetoday · 17/02/2025 21:51

How will it cost £80k
Cheltenham ladies and Brighton are the priciest with boarding but none are anywhere near @£80k

Or does this include flights or something 🤔😀

or what @OhCrumbsWhereNow said. Although the figures still don’t stack up

Edited

Super intensive SEN placement, is my guess. They can cost more than that, too.

Bringmefood12 · 17/02/2025 22:21

LondonLawyer · 17/02/2025 22:18

Super intensive SEN placement, is my guess. They can cost more than that, too.

It is s very bizzare we were happy with our local Sen schools / resource based 6 consultations all 6 said no
only option was a Independent specialist dyslexia school
80 percent of their students la funded .. surely there is a cheaper more productive way for the systems to work.

CleverButScatty · 17/02/2025 22:51

Cluckycluck · 17/02/2025 08:52

It won't be an extra 4k a year, it will be an extra 4k per term. 12k is a lot of money to find.

I don't think that is likely unless you are talking about the likes of Eton with fees of over 40k... Unlikely for a nurse.

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