Are these remarks inappropriate

[Lou972]

I attended an adult first aid course. The instructor made these remarks when discussing the defib.

1. Cut off a womens bra as it might have metal. If you're like me though, I've been told I'm useless at removing womens bras and they tell me 'get away from me'
2. Find the correct spot for the defib pads (then showed us where to put them) then said 'if a womans breasts are low then move them out the way'
3. Do not touch the persons bum when putting them into recovery position, this is sexual harassment
4. Shave a mans chest if it is hairy before using the defib, or it might be needed for a womans chest if you come from where I live

Some of the learners where age 17 as well so not adults

All Defibs have a shaving pack included. It's absolutely necessary to shave thick hair or the pads won't stick.

our defib was out of date apparently, so worse than useless

I've been on courses like that.
I'm not offended. I may feel like rolling my eyes but to me it's not a big deal.

Oh dear thought the ‘ Karen insults’ had died out, but there’s always one.
You are so out of date Auburn, time to update your mysoginistic insult of choice.
Or maybe don’t insult blameless women for having a name

This is why first aid training is needed.

A defib is that man's best chance of survival. It isn't a niceity to shave his chest, the life saving defib Will. Not. Work if it doesn't get good adhesion to skin surface. Not just "won't work as good as it could," it Will Not Work. That is why there will be a razor in the defib bag, along with idiot-proof instructions for how to use the defib.

No shaving cream, because we are caring about saving his life, not about shaving rash.

That's really poor. There is no excuse for the pads and defibs being over the expiry date. Although.... it would most likely still work if it was needed so not entirely useless. Whoever looks after it needs to get a spreadsheet of all expiry dates and change out when needed. They aren't cheap for replacements, but what price can you put on a life!

It strikes me some companies have defibs as a pr benefit and actually don't audit them once a month, provide yearly training on them for staff and look after them! They would prefer to say aren't we amazing look we have defibs and xyz etc. ... but actually not looking after the equipment.

Outdated and clumsy but do we really want to live in a world that the slightest poor attempt at humour warrants complaints and hyperbole.

Heres the other thing - if it bothered you SAY SOMETHING. AT THE TIME.

Nothing worse than sitting there saying nothing then complaining about it afterwards.

How so we get men to stop - call it out when it happens and say something rather than idly accepting it and then going all Karen afterwards.

@LuckysDadsHat best have an expensive wax that be dead!

But if you had the proper set up, using pads as a wax wouldn't ever be needed. One of the below linked kits is all that is needed. Cable tie it to the handle of the defib and check it monthly as part of an audit. You should be checking the defib is working correctly monthly anyway so add it in to your checks.

If the defib has ever been used, new pads and new accessory kits ordered and cable tied as before.

www.amazon.co.uk/Reliance-AED-Prep-Kit-RL2877/dp/B0755CM8GS/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?adgrpid=149537760713&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.PiRPNoKlvupdnYI37M1GwADfTMo_bOTAYa762BuBjlU6EtTtpaSXBjJCe8hltjCDY0Q3UK_9cEw_c4jiK4jMH23K4oCCHzdPKXq_TtHazfeZmQRLfPgF44Q16VvkacstaOBO0HaH3UEjZwS2SIHBjM-mocVgJRfkgq4mxEMTj9QGh3RT57KVBkQtl28bjbutJl8yYE2iS-MyES1pO02TXA.2RWnEPHwnt936ihh2xitHhdkf203BRR6uZjETGMz6NI&dib_tag=se&hvadid=655240178604&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9045715&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12893994109206169501&hvtargid=kwd-319724472234&hydadcr=13953_2301915&keywords=aed+prep+kit&qid=1739700829&sr=8-4

I hope Rescue Anne had access to counselling.

See, just shows we're all different humour wise.
Number 4 made me do an actual laugh, that's a good one 😁

Perhaps have a quick look at St John's Ambulance website. There might be a time that you need to have an idea of what to do.
https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/i-need-to-know/defibrillator-guide-for-first-time-buyers/

Humour like this needs to be put to bed. Time would be better spent explaining why the chest would need to be shaved, not making insulting jokes towards the women were he is from. He's teaching a medical course, jokes are ok, but keep them medically/ethically factual. I'd put in the feedback that the humour was outdated.

I disagree on this occasion. Saying something at the time would disrupt the class which people have paid for. Making a measured comment by means of feedback means that the issue can be addressed appropriately and privately. In fact, it might actually SAVE that person's job.

I mean kind of yes, it’s not a slur so I don’t need to say ‘the K word’ and it’s not exactly offensive to mention a stereotype out of context. I fear you might be overreacting.

Just to confirm, I wasn’t particularly offended. I just wanted opinions about whether they were appropriate remarks to make in that situation especially when we were mainly all women.

Thanks for posting as I think the razor tip will help a lot of people who were unaware!

The remarks are inappropriate in today's world. Nothing too terrible but I would submit some feedback that the session was really useful, informative and clearly presented, but the sexist jokes caused the participants to feel uncomfortable and would be best omitted.

It's ok to call this stuff out in a sensible and proportionate way.

Tbf 1 is true too. Some underwires and fasteners are metal and you do have to get them off. The joke wasn't really that funny but I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over it.

2 is true.

3 also true, there is no need to touch their bum and they should be respected even when unconscious.

4 true. Pads won't stick right if there is hair, there's a razor in the defib pack. Joke was off colour but again, not so offensive I'd complain.

I feel like I've been on this exact course. Do you live in the north West (england)??

1 and 4 were inappropriate and 2 depends on the way it was said. At our defibrillator training it was simply said that breasts may need to be moved. We had a woman trainer though, who didn't feel the need to make sexist jokes though I suppose they did serve to make you remember the training (luckily I made our training session memorable by opening the kit to have a look inside, not realising it would start "talking" very loudly when I did! Panicked and slammed it shut and everyone laughed at me 😂)

Please read my reply to PP regarding Karen not being a slur and I didn’t make any kind of joke- I referred to a stereotype while talking about myself because it has a common definition most understand.

Wasn’t an insult and I have already said I wouldn’t use it as one.

Lifeguard here and therefore very regular attendee of first aid courses. All the facts are correct but the comments about how he can't remove a bra and shaving a woman's chest are wrong.

I'm wondering if it's our former trainer. It's the sort of thing he used to say. He was fired for sexual harassment.

Was this SE London?

That was the advice I was given in a first aid course this week - if no razor, wax with the spare pad if it’s a hairy chest.

Well - you'll remember it now
And your post here has taught several people that shaving the chest is VERY NECESSARY and not a joke (worrying that one of these is someone who's workplace has a defib, training should be provided)

Re no. 4 he might have been referring to transwomen.

I dont think so as he mentioned the area he is from and then said 'is anyone from this area, know anyone from this area?' and then made the joke