Are these remarks inappropriate

[Lou972]

I attended an adult first aid course. The instructor made these remarks when discussing the defib.

1. Cut off a womens bra as it might have metal. If you're like me though, I've been told I'm useless at removing womens bras and they tell me 'get away from me'
2. Find the correct spot for the defib pads (then showed us where to put them) then said 'if a womans breasts are low then move them out the way'
3. Do not touch the persons bum when putting them into recovery position, this is sexual harassment
4. Shave a mans chest if it is hairy before using the defib, or it might be needed for a womans chest if you come from where I live

Some of the learners where age 17 as well so not adults

I agree with you, not a word I would use to describe anyone myself but ‘I want to speak to your manager’ is the stereotype and thats what I was saying.

Karen is more offensive than anything the instructor said.

Some people were brought up talking this way. I’ve been around men and women whose speech was a bit too direct for my liking but at the same time I don’t want to live in a world where people are too nervous to speak or make jokes or too self conscious of class differences. Part of living in a diverse society is accepting that you will be around people with have slightly different norms. I’m not saying to ignore blatant instances of inappropriate language but I do think we should prepared to cut people some slack.

I put it in quotation marks for a reason, it’s not a word I would use as an insult towards another person.

I mean, that's one way to make these tedious training courses more exciting.

If you are completing an evaluation of the training you could mention the outdated humour attempts, simply so they can improve

Also more likely to remember what to do or not do.

Since the use of defibs became available on all my First Responder courses we've always been told to ensure there's a razor with the defib, check battery regularly and even keep a spare battery with it. Also told to keep a cloth or towel to quickly wipe down the casualty if they're wet or sweating profusely or the pads won't stick.

As for shaving a hairy chested man we were shown how to do two or three quick shave strokes just to get the main chest hair removed and not the full chest.

Remove chains and nipple rings too.

Well 1 and 4 are necessary, it’s just the joke at the end that wasn’t but he’s trying to make it memorable.

The shaving the women’s chest comment is clearly inappropriate.

The sexual harassment comment is a bit weird. Surely goes without saying, there’s no need to touch someone’s arse when giving First Aid.

I'd feedback how it made me felt and especially as some on the course were under 18. It's inappropriate.

This isn’t about class, though. It’s about clumsy old-fashioned sexism and making women the butt of his smutty jokes.

And this is someone who is training people to care for those who need first aid - presumably in a vulnerable situation.

I think you're completely over reacting

1 and 4 are bad jokes, but they are all true. You should remove the bra, if the breast is in the way of placing the pad then move it (the breast), there is no need to touch someone's bum when putting them in the recovery position, and a hairy chest will stop the pads from making contact with the chest.

Defibs come with a razor packed. Quick shave of the spot to attach the pads. Not the entire chest. We are taught drivers seat belt position.

Nurse and First Aid Officer. Yes, you absolutely do have to move people's boobs out of the way. I suspect the tone of voice when the instructor said it may have been flippant or "jokey" judging from his other comments, and he's not paid to be a commedian.

You also have to shave some chests to ensure that the pads adhere properly. BUT you don't make jokes about it.

On that note, one of the first things I teach my FA students is that we must preserve the patient's dignity wherever possible. His jokes don't imply that he takes that part very seriously at all. I'm uncomfortable with the Benny Hill-style comments you've mentioned. I think I would contact the organisation and let them know that you feel that his attempts at humor were ill-advised and didn't promote a professional, respectful atmosphere. He may not realise that his jokes landed badly and would benefit from being told it's not okay.

There will be a razor in the defib pack. TBH you're better spending your time using it and getting them ready for ambulance service to take over than fixing it on and having the professionals waste time having to do the shave.

Ahhh so if we're using insulting stereotypes it's ok as long as it's quotation marks? Because then it's an insult someone else would use, rather than ourselves. Right. Glad we cleared that up!

🙄

Same! So many professionally offended.

We have razors with our defibrillator. Obviously you have to dry shaven them.
I thought it was standard practice.

Each to there own having been on numerous course like this
obviously perhaps not the best attempt at humour but nothing outrageously offensive
id sooner they’d try to inject a bit of life into than Just roboterly present it

he sounds like a 1970’s David Brent

i have used defib many times and all seems reasonable to me. Agree use a razor if one needed and handy. If not then do your best. Good contact is essential though. He most likely was delivering training with humour to make it less dry. He wasn’t looking for chuckles just trying to deliver knowledge in a way you’ll enjoy and remember. Leave him alone.

I wouldn’t complain but IMO 1 and 4 are definitely a bit ‘cringe’ and unprofessional. But that’s the script he uses which I presume he will keep using until someone at some point is able to give him some constructive feedback and point out the inappropriate nature of his ‘jokes’. I’m sure he doesn’t mean to be offensive and has no idea that anyone would find him so. But if you were, then others will have been too.

On a quick skim I've seen at least 3 posts talking about not "getting worked up"

Nobody is getting worked up. It's just expecting professional language in a professional context.

All 4 are factually correct. 1,3 and 4 were expressed inappropriately. 2 could be OK-it depends on tone.

Thanks for this thread I knew about defibs but not about the bras or chest hair. Presumably when I rang 999 or used the defib it would tell me this?

This! They weren’t inappropriate at all.