Finances/do we have another child?

[MixedFeelings72]

Firstly I am aware we are in a more privileged position that a lot of people so apologies in advance if this comes across as not reading the rooms, but a blasé conversation with DH about booking a holiday suddenly has me spiralling about our financial situation, and I needed to write it down. Will try and give as much information as I can without being too outing. Mum of 1yo DD, recently returned to work after maternity leave, gone back part time at 4 days a week. DD in nursery 3 days a week, looked after by paternal grandparents one day a week. DH working full time, earns less than I do l, no issues (or so I thought), we contribute equally to joint account to cover mortgage and bills, since I’m back at work and earning more I’m paying for DD nursery and most of DD costs (clothes, nappies, toiletries, etc). Mortgage went up with interest rate rises by £800 a month end of last year. Managed to get through maternity leave and pay my share of mortgage and bills/DD costs with my savings and a couple of months at full pay per my company policy, plus statutory maternity pay. Having a blasé conversation with DH this evening about using a companion voucher with BA to book airlines flights for May before voucher expires, and DH says can we afford it? On my salary, yes in theory, but each month his outgoings are less than earnings so he’s slowly chipped away at his current account balance each month. As I said I’m also covering DD most of DDs costs, and so I don’t want to pay for the whole holiday. So I say ok, we can’t afford it right now, we won’t book the holiday, not the issue. But this got me thinking. We were planning to have a second baby this year (if it happens for us, had a chemical last month, possibly a blessing in disguise). I’ll be back at work for at least 10 months before second baby born in theory, so hopefully will have built up enough savings to be able to contribute my share to mortgage and bills along with my maternity pay same as first time round, and nursery costs using savings. But I said to DH, can we actually afford to have another baby right now? Fine, second time round so we won’t have a lot of the initially larger expenses. We haven’t made a decision yet about private schooling, I went to private school but DH didn’t, and I feel some sort of responsibility to give DD the same opportunities in life that I had, so we have put DD in a nursery known in the area for having great success rates for private schooling entrance - at least this gives us the option when the time comes. Obviously it is a few years away, and ideally we both progress in our careers and earnings capacity goes up, and we can afford it. But even then, based on current situation, we couldn’t afford 2 lots of private school fees. DH response to my question can we afford to have another baby was we’ll just sell the house and downsize. Not unreasonable in theory, but we chose the area for schooling and transport links, and there is a price premium attached as a result. And while I may be being unreasonable, it doesn’t sit right with me at this point in life to be taking a ‘step backwards’ and downsizing when actually if we were to have another baby, we probably need to upsize at some point in the future. Am feeling slightly frustrated at DH’s apparent solution being to downsize rather than finding a job that pays more (I know it’s possibly easier said than done), and resentful that this isn’t how I pictured my life - I didn’t think I would be sat here questioning if we could afford a second child (even if we didn’t send them both to private school), and DH talking about needing to downsize to be able to do so. I realise I had a very privileged upbringing, went to private school, got a good job after university and was able to save a good deposit to buy our house (we put in equal amounts towards our deposit). And I also know that the current economic situation means tightening purse strings so we may have to forego luxuries like holidays for a bit. But what was a blasé conversation about booking a holiday turned into can we afford to have another child, and do we need to downsize our house. Am I being unreasonable to have a conversation with DH about retraining to get a better paid job, or taking on a side hustle to supplement income? I don’t want to put undue pressure on him or make him feel like he can’t provide for our family, but I am feeling resentful at where the conversation went, and having to make compromises to be able to have a second child which has always been in our life plan.

All your big costs - mortgage, childcare and hypothetical school fees - have increased disproportionately over the last 30 years so you can't compare like with like in terms of your own childhood.

You need to move from a back of a fag packet to a decent spreadsheet and get a thorough understanding of your finances now and in the medium to long term to decide what your priorities are and how you are going to pay for them.

Two children at private school from aged 4 is a LOT of money.

I went to private secondary the 00s. My parents were pretty normal middle class people. DH went to prep then public school from 4-18. There is way we could afford it for our children! The cost as a proportion of wages has risen so much as have things like mortgage costs.

I don't normally love the "oh you earn over 100k so you must have no financial woes" mentality on mumsnet but yeah you can obviously afford another child.

You're absolutely loaded compared to most of the population. Easily covering your costs at the moment while working 4 days a week with multiple savings accounts as well. If you're that worried just don't send them to private school. 99% of the population couldn't even contemplate private school so surely that gives you a clue to how well off you are?

It's very hard to read all of that when it's not in paragraphs.

It doesn't sound like you are in a position to send 2 children to private school on your current salaries. So either you need to earn more between you, you go full time and your husband goes part time instead since he earns less, or he looks for a better jobs.

Alternatively you cut your cloth appropriately and have 2 kids who go to regular school, or 2 that go to private school and have your current house, or iust stick with one and have a bigger house and private school.

The vast majority of people can't afford everything they would like out if life so I don't think you need to feel hard done by. You are also more fortunate than the vast majority of people too. I don't think you can expect to send your kid(s) to private school just because you went, the world is a different place now (as is evident by your huge mortgage increase).

So you earn just under 100k & he earns 70k ish or M i reading that wrong? you can afford another dc

He has to use his savings because his income is less than yours? It sounds like you earn a lot more so the lower earner shouldn’t be covering 50% when it’s unaffordable.

Re privately school, where in the country do you live? In the north, on a 100-125k salary plus a maybe 75k salary at a guess, you could send 2 children to private school comfortably unless you’ve saddled yourself with a ginormous mortgage. If you’re down south or London, I don’t think you could.

Then it depends if private school is really important to you, or more something you feel like you should do. I wouldn’t have had more children than I could afford to privately educate, but it was really important to me. If it wasn’t, I would have waited until seniors and looked at finances at the time.

If DH is in a low paid role, why the assumption that his career will progress?
At all - not even thinking about progressing to the extent of funding private schooling for two.

OP as others have said, if your DH already works full time I think you could introduce some resentment if you then ask him to take on a side hustle or retraining on top of it while you work 4 days, regardless of the earning status you’re asking an awful lot of his time there.

The horrible truth is this cost of living crisis doesn’t appear to be going away. What would you do if baby 2 was twins? I have twins, the nursery fees were crippling.
Does your DH even want to retrain and do a different job? It can’t all just be about the money.
I think you sometimes have to sit and look at your financial situation and just make some decisions, as your DH has, essentially. There’s no shame in downsizing if it opens up the money to do something else you’d like to do (private school).

If you can't afford one holiday, how on earth do you think you can afford private school?

He’s in a lower paid role than me right now because he was made redundant and it was better to take a lower paid job than wait to look for a job that paid similar to his previous role (which had him on a similar salary to me). The job market for his industry is currently atrocious with hundreds of applications for the type of role he previously did. He did it before, so if the right role came along, he could do it again

Private school is 3 years away. We can’t afford the one holiday now (booking now for a few months time) because I’ve just gone back to work after a year on maternity pay, and DH is in a lower paid job than he previously was after being made redundant, so we don’t have the liquidity right now.

Greater London, just inside the M25. It is important to me, but we’ve agreed we would look at the affordability of it closer to the time and our financial circumstances

We sat down last night after I posted and went through the numbers. He’s effectively breaking even each month. We worked out that though we both contribute equally to bills and mortgage, with me paying DD costs and nursery fees, we are pretty much contributing proportionally to our earnings.

It’s honestly nuts to assume in 3 years time you could afford private school when your DH earns 70k and “breaks even” at the end of the month, and you can’t even afford a holiday in a few months time!

Your DH being made redundant and having a lower paid job should make it clear to you that you shouldn’t overextend yourself as things can change.

When our child was in nursery we couldn't afford a holiday either - that's fairly normal, it was more than our mortgage so there wasn't much left. And everyone I know who used paid childcare waited until their first child was within sight of three year old funding before TTC the second.

If you're earning more you should be paying more proportionally. It's not fair that your husband is running through his savings while you're still fine.

Private school isn't necessary. It's nice your parents were able to afford it, but you are not them and life is different now. I sometimes get a bit fed up that my parents could afford a very nice house in an expensive city on one professional salary, while we have the best part of two decent salaries and can only afford a small house somewhere much less exciting. But that's life - everything costs more and salaries haven't risen as they should have. A secure, flexible job is better than a high salary at this stage in your life.

If you’re earning 80k working 4 days & dh is earning 50/60 (based on what you’ve already said) you can definitely afford a second child. What you probably can’t do is privately educate them. So you have to decide if 2dc in state or 1 dc privately educated is the priority.

I also don't understand how you can't afford a holiday.
I'm the first to agree 100k isn't what it was but it's nonsense that 150k plus isn't enough for 1 holiday or another dc.

I don't think anyone can ever answer this question for you because you have to decide whether you want a second child more than you want your existing lifestyle. You will have to compromise. I think there is a long list of things to be looked at before moving house or changing jobs. Schooling is definitely one.

Similar incomes and yes, you can have a second baby. We're now 10 years further ahead than you and it's absolutely doable. I'm in law, husband also professional services.

Fact is with two small kids, holidays where you throw everything in the car and go to Cornwall for a week in June are easier and more sensible / enjoyable than a week at an all inclusive where the babies crawl on 40 degree heat concrete. So are cheaper. So you are still getting a break together as a family.

I did 4 days until the eldest was at school and youngest was 3 and getting discount hours. Any pay over £100k was put in pensions to avoid the £100-125k tax losses. I'm now back FT and flex my hours so I've leaned back in but am still at the school gate a few times a week.

We looked at private but ended up deciding on state. If you are in London, you'll probably end up in private because state is so competitive and insane for the right school. If you are in the 'burbs then state is perfectly adequate and secondary for senior when you are back at work full time. That said, we've moved "out" and the privates here aren't as academic as some of the higher performing states.

I understand you are viewing this through a different lense to me. But it's also through a different lense than the vast majority of the population, for whom the concept of private school isn't even on the radar (and they can still have successful and happily lives). I think basing a decison on having another child you really want on whether or not you can send them to private school would seem bonkers to most people! I don't mean that unkindly...just factually!

You need to sit down and go through all of your total family outgoings together...both current and potential, including a mat leave period. This is what your lifestyle is costing. Then look at what you as a family can actually afford in the context of what's a realistic contribution from both of you. Your current way of doing it isn't working.

Unless he is really lazy or making multiple personal purchases with money he doesnt have, I think you need to let go of your resentment towards him if it's a difficult job market. I know it's easier said than done.

ETA I've just seen he's actually a good earner by most people's standards. I totally get that people on here can he naive about the cost of living in a big city, taking into account nursery costs, but to think that people on your salaries cannot afford two kids is madness given that you are in such a high earning proportion of the population.

In your OP you ask if you'd be unreasonable to ask him to retrain and get a higher paying job. It sounds like he's still earning a decent salary (although less than you), so unless he wants to retrain I think that would be unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable at all though to look at your finances and think carefully about the future. It sounds like private primary school for two DC may be out of your reach, but maybe things will be looking better by the time they reach secondary school age. I agree with you that downsizing just when you're planning a second DC and need more space seems like an odd decision, especially if you'd then be planning to upsize again a few years later - such a waste of stamp duty etc.

Try not to feel resentful about what you can and can't afford compared to your parents. That's the reality for everyone now (mainly due to increases in house prices).

And if you save now you can probably afford private secondary for 2 dc if you really want it.

You can afford a second child, you can’t afford to privately educate two children though so I suppose it comes down to what’s more important to you both, having a second or private school?

You could compromise slightly and try for a second and forget private education until secondary years in the hope that by then you’ll be in a better position to afford it (higher paying job, promotion, you going full time etc)

I wouldn’t push DH to find a side hustle if he already works full time. He would end up never having time to spend with any of you, be exhausted. You’d get frustrated at the lack of help with the children etc.

But surely not everyone’s husband can afford to supplement the missing maternity leave pay? No one I knows earns enough for one spouse to cover half or more of the other’s wages. I get the point about it being seen as coming from op’s savings but presumably they are technically just joint savings (because they are married) that are supplementing the missing wages?