Couple held in Iran

[StrawDonkey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c626p6pz7xlo

AIBU to not understand why anyone would go on a motorcycle trip to Iran? Advice is not to go there at all but I can understand that someone desperate to see family would take a risk.

Yes I think they were on some kind of mission to prove that Iran wasn't the Oppressive Regime portrayed by the press and everyone is loving and kind which of course not everyone is

I think both of those things are true. The regime is undeniably oppressive and fundamentalist, there are countless examples of this. It also flouts international law and has no qualms about detaining (and worse) people it knows to be innocent.

It’s also true that Persian people are hospitable, welcoming and open-hearted, which was ostensibly why this couple’s so-called risk assessment determined they would be fine. There is a sort of “liberal elite” (awful phrase) in Iran comprising (generally) educated urbanites who have been exposed to the world outside of an Islamic theocracy, and are appalled by their unelected leaders. Obviously, most of the diaspora come from this group and they have (also generally) flourished in the countries they fled to post-79.

However, the uprising against the Shah did not happen in a vacuum (and tbf he was no less corrupt than the current lot). The Islamists came to power as the result of a huge protest by ordinary people, there are remote villages where life hasn’t changed much in centuries and Islamic rule retains popular support in many places - Iran itself being a rather massive and diverse place!

I guess the villa could be sold to help pay costs for their release.

I’m think that would be a drop in the ocean!

How much did the UK government have to pay, of the historical debt to Iran, before the release of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe was agreed? I'm not sure but I imagine it was a lot, lot more than the sale of a Spanish villa would fetch.

400 million

@letsallchant 400 million I believe. But I don't think we've got it down the back of the sofa anymore.

Very funny 🤣

@Vinvertebrate I am really appreciating your commentary and observations here. The political and social context are critical to their plight, and we can't really comment unless we understand it.

Having looked again at the list of people round the table at the meeting the fact that they are the Kerman Prosecutor and Kerman governor’s deputy for security and law enforcement rather than the Iranian Minister for Offering Hospitable Tea and Biscuits to the British Ambassador does not look hopeful at this stage.

Thanks @DeepFatFried 😊

The local negotiators suggest the authorities are treating it as a standard criminal matter - well, as “standard” as espionage gets! I suspect that will change when Iran’s order for chieftain tanks from the UK circa 1978 makes it to the top of the agenda, as it did with Nazanin Ratcliffe. People have long memories!

Agree, where would such money come from these days? They're going to be a long way down the list of priorities

Couple of morons. They've caused a lot of unnecessary grief.

This article has some quite interesting background (from late last year):

https://www.surinenglish.com/lifestyle/people/finding-out-what-means-human-motorbike-20241220182014-nt.html

I have also read that when Lindsay applied to give her findings to the psychology conference they were travelling around the world to, the conference gave her the opportunity to present just a poster as her contribution.
So there wasn't to be an oral presentation at the conference - just allowed the inclusion of a poster to represent their whole trip... which seems a little bit of a bizarre move from both sides! That's some trip to undertake for a poster! Equally the conference didn't seem to find it interesting enough to allow for a presentation.

I have also read that when Lindsay applied to give her findings to the psychology conference they were travelling around the world to, the conference gave her the opportunity to present just a poster as her contribution.

That seems to be confirmed by the list of accepted presentation proposals here:
https://ippaworldcongress.org/abstract-presenter-listing/ (page 4).

Poster sessions are regarded as less prestigious than giving a talk, but in my experience of academic conferences they can be the best way to make contact with the small number of people who are really interested in your topic. The Q&A sessions after a talk are often pretty bad; there is a standard joke about a mediocre (usually male) audience member droning on for 6 of the allotted 10 minutes with "This is more of a comment than a question" that gets nobody anywhere. Any discussion where the participants are sitting 15 metres apart and talking through microphones in front of a room full of others is never going to match the quality of being able to point at this point in that diagram.

@PrimalScreaming presenting posters at conferences can still be quite a big deal. The idea is that you lurk around it and chat to conference participants. So it's an opportunity to present your material in a different but less formal way to a full presentation. Both DH and DD have done this, as well as giving full presentations and have travelled to do both.

Ironic heh at the mayor of Brussels giving them a “diplomatic contact” in Iran!

Someone has created a Wikipedia page for this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Craig_and_Lindsay_Foreman

They forgot to add 'foolish' before couple. They forgot to add that they travelled to Iran despite considerable advice not to ho. They forgot to say that they were taking pictures whilst travelling around interviewing Iranians and uploaded to social media using a VPN.

It's Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it.

Interesting article, it's behind a paywall so link is to paywall remover site.

This quote rather leap out: But I can see a situation in which Lindsay might have upset someone. She is good company in a bar but when you get to know her you realise that she feels she can do what she wants, when she wants.'
It seems the couple, or rather Mrs Foreman, had a number of fallouts with people in Albunuelas.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14421933/Arrogance-Iran-motorbike-couple-danger-tourism-Brits-PAUL-BRACCHI-inside-story.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14421933/Arrogance-Iran-motorbike-couple-danger-tourism-Brits-PAUL-BRACCHI-inside-story.html

Sorry, don't know why it wouldn't attach to first message but has gone up twice on this one. 🤦.

Try this: https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14421933/Arrogance-Iran-motorbike-couple-danger-tourism-Brits-PAUL-BRACCHI-inside-story.html

I'm always a bit skeptical of these hit pieces. I suspect that the Mail could find someone to say something a bit snide/jealous about most of us, and I think a lot of us can sometimes come across as a bit bloody-minded. If they were being held hostage after, say, their plane had had to make an emergency landing (as happened in Baghdad at the start of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait), the piece would presumably have had a different tone, even though it was about the same people.

Thank you for the links. The article mentions that the family have tried to contact the guide they used with no luck and then kind of infer that as he was the only one with them throughout Iran that he may have been an informant.
Surely the guide would not contact the family now anyway - it would be putting himself in incredible danger to do so!

The authorities will know where you are without an informant giving them that information. Not only will your details be registered with the hotels in which you stay but there are security/ID checks when you cross state boundaries. I don’t doubt for one moment that the Iranian security services would have been able to find us easily if they’d wanted to!

Would they have been being tracked from when they entered the country?

I have been to Syria before the war and tourists were tracked on everything (bus trips/Hotels/random checks etc). Every bus trip we took between cities our passport details were written down in several places. The number of tourists 20 years ago was very very small. Literally a hand full at every sight we visited. And often the only foreigners on a bus.

I can imagine it’s very similar in Iran and probably much easier to track people now. And so much easier to track those that post on social media.