To think it's bonkers to not vaccinate against chicken pox

[Springadorable]

Especially if you have multiple kids who haven't had it who would probably get it back to back meaning potentially 2-3 weeks off work for parents while waiting for them to scab over.

Genuinely curious as to why people don't vaccinate. It is more expensive to have the time off work than to vaccinate and it's a nasty uncomfortable avoidable illness for kids and a standard vaccine for a lot of the rest of the world. So if you haven't, why not?

Shingles 🔥🔥🔥☄️☄️☄️☄️🐝🐝🐝🐝⚡️⚡️⚡️Agonising.
Post herpetic neuralgia can last years.

Would have paid thousands not to have caught chicken pox-

Well my mind has certainly been changed.

I will enquire about getting the vaccination.

Please do- I used to think that chicken pox was mild - But shingles - the pain from that is excruciating.
The slightest touch like clothes or bedding - It’s no joke.
vaccinate if you can!

So much misinformation on this thread it’s actually unreal.

Has your immunity been checked ? It’s highly unlikely that you have been around it and have never had it. Perhaps you had a mild dose. Some people are very lucky and get such a mild dose they don’t even notice they have had it.

Well I’m Irish and this isn’t a thing for me. I prefer research based medicine myself

This is also COMPLETELY WRONG.

You don't understand the difference between a virus and the disease/infection it causes.

The varicella-zoster virus causes chickenpox and shingles.

The vaccine contains inactivated viruses which DON'T cause chickenpox.

Your immune system reacts to the inactiuvated virus and creates antibodies specific to the virus. When the person gets exposed to the varicella zoster virus later, their body destroys it before iot can cause chickenpox.

So indeed, the vaccine DOES prevent chickenpox (and also shingles).

Please people, if you don't have knowledge about what you're talking about, don't make up shit. People's lives literally depend on this.

Again, another poster who has no idea that a virus, and the disease it causes, are completely different things. It is embarrassing. Read above.

The vaccine does not cause chickenpox.

You know very little, if anything, of virology but here you are with completely false statements which could cost people their health and their lives.

Ignorance kills.

Excuse me? Could you please point to the part of my post that "spreads misinformation"?

An adult who has lost immunity can have another dose of the vaccine. No idea why such an easy solution of the "problem" of losing immunity was not discussed at the time, and leaving your child with no protection was offered as the better option.

It is very complex, but you raise a very good question.

The problem with getting a "booster" of immunity when you get a smaller dose of a virus from a person either carrying, or having an infection of a viral disease is mostly related to something called "infectious dose". The "infectious dose" is the minimum number of viruses you need to be exposed to in order to actually "catch" the disease. For the majority of viruses, it's not enough to get one, or even several hundreds of viruses in your body. When only a bunch of viruses enter your body, you body’s innate immune system can easily deal with them before they spread and cause the actual disease.

The problem is, the innate immune system does not create immunity for the future. So yes, you do boost your immunity every time you're exposed to a pathogen, but you may only be boosting your innate immunity (it still helps you to keep healthier in general, but won't give you specific protection against a specific virus).

In order to create immunity to any disease, your adaptive immune system needs to be involved and activated. This only happens when the number of viruses (or bacteria) inside your body is large enough to be noticed by your adaptive immune system, or when your innate immune system has not managed to contain the viruses.

Vaccines take advantage of this, by introducing a lot of either dead, inactivated or parts of a virus in your body, so your adaptive immune system is activated. But as the viruses are not able to produce the infection/disease, your body does not have to fight with the disease while creating immunity.

So getting exposed to a small amount of varicella zoster viruses may well not make any difference in your immunity to chickenpox, or to shingles.

For the majority of viruses, you need to get over 100,000 units of virus in order to actually get sick. There are exceptions, like for example noroviruses, which can cause disease just with a viral dose of some dozens of viruses (that's why they are so contagious and easy to catch).

This is just one of the many examples in which understanding the difference between a virus (or bacteria) and the disease it causes is essential in order to understand how it works.

I think you're being a tad dramatic over a choice of words.

The vaccine contains a weakened version of the virus but not an "inactive" one. It's definitely a live vaccine.

So perhaps stop with the capitalised hysterics, I've said nothing controversial and you're making mistakes too. It's far less embarrassing for me, because I've stated that I'm not expert though.

No one has denied it's a live vaccine. I have corrected your statement where, I quote, you said that the vaccine "doesn't prevent kids catching chickenpox, it literally gives them a weakened version of chickenpox".

That is incorrect. The vaccine very much prevents children catching chickenpox (that's the point of it), and no, it does not give them "a weaker version of chickenpox", neither literally or figuratively.

Regarding your other comment about being dramatic, I think it is likely that recently watching a newborn die of whooping cough whose parents were told their baby could get "natural immunity" to the disease, and chose to believe the people who told them that nonsense instead of the health professionals, has affected how I react to posters who spread misinformation about things like these. Yes, you're right in that.

Perhaps you would have said that "your baby can get natural immunity to whooping cough" was just a choice of words. I prefer to call it a very dangerous lie, simnply because newborn babies cannot get natural immunity to whooping cough. The difference between your "choice of words" and mine is, my choice of words is not a lie, and it does not kill.

If this discussion helps a single family make a more informed decision then I am happy to deal with people like you telling me I am a tad dramatic.

After all, it's not my kids who will be affected by this, as I don't have any. But there are many posters on this very thread who have kids who can.

What about my statement, in fact everything I've said on this thread, do you think was designed to persuade people not to vaccinate? My kids are all vaccinated, I believe in science and in vaccinations.

You absolutely said repeatedly that the chickenpox vaccine is made from inactive virus, and it isn't. That's there a few times for all to see. You're human too and it happens.

That I used the word chickenpox instead of varicella zarosta virus is nothing to do with babies getting whooping cough. Lots of vaccines give mild forms of viruses so that severe disease is prevented, and that's brilliant. It wasn't a criticism! I'm not an expert, I've said that on here a few times now, I'm having a conversation about something that fascinates me on a discussion board. I'm not giving medical advice and have made clear the massive limits to my knowledge on the area.

When I talk about vaccines with my friends I reassure and promote. I worked hard to guide people to the right advice when they worried about the COVID vaccines, and I get my children every vaccine available to them. You're kicking the wrong woman. You want people like me to be talking about vaccines, so perhaps have a tiny bit of patience and grace for those who agree with you but occasionally use the wrong word for something.

Added: and so you see I have no issue correcting inexact information, also coming from me, actually you did pick up one thing I wrote wrong: I wrote "inactivated" vaccine when I actually meant "attenuated". The chickenpox vaccine is a live attenuated vaccine, not inactivated. Thanks for pointing that out.

Snap!

Well, you’re a fine one to talk 😂
You’re the ignorant one misleading people!

In case you’re still unclear -
The chickenpox (varicella) vaccine contains live, attenuated (ie weakened) virus.

My post earlier was to correct yours, because yours misinformed people that
(and I quote)
If you're vaccinated against chickenpox and don't catch it, you literally cannot have shingles as you don't have the virus in your body.

This is complete misinformation unfortunately. The vaccine introduces a weakened version of the virus to the body. Not inactive. (This is why some people get chickenpox very, very mildly when they get vaccinated.)
Thus you can still get shingles later on though you’re less likely to, and it tends to be milder.

It’s easy to read up on this. I suggest you do so before you embarrass yourself further.

Those that I know that have had their children vaccinated, have had the chicken poxs years later. Does the vaccine even work?

The difference about talking on a scienfic congress and on an internet forum is, statements on here are generic. With another scientist, I couldn't even tell them "if you drink a glass of water you won't die", because there may be a 0.00001% chance they actually would, for a number of reasons.

The reason we don't recommend live attenuated vaccines to immunocompromised people is precisely the risk that the attenuated viruses can actually cause a milder version of the disease. Still, when those vaccines have been given by error to immunocompromised people, the instances of this happening have been minimal.

If you want to use a rare event in a generic parenting forum to make your point, then go ahead and feel righteous, and laugh until you choke. I am trying to get the message across that chickenpox vaccines save lives, hearing, brains, fetuses and a number of weeks of total misery for a lot of people, many of them children and vulnerable adults.

How many years later did the children have chickenpox @theprincessthepea ?

The vaccine does work. It’s been in use in the US since 1995 so how well it works over longer timescales than that wouldn’t be known yet.

What a bloody brilliant post! Thank you

You can get CP if vaccinated. You can get CP more than once. Vaccines reduce the risk of catching disease as well as severity if you catch it. It's not that difficult to understand. Being vaccinated protects you, but also others from catching it from you.

I have absolutely no idea why you think I don’t strongly advocate the use of vaccines.
Another poster said the same to you a little while ago I see.
You are so busy tripping over your self-righteousness and indignation at what you think people are saying that you’re not actually reading them properly.

You are also posting misinformation and you can use any excuse you like but it’s still not okay.

Not sure what the rare event was? About 1% get chickenpox extremely mildly following vaccination. That’s a lot of people at a population level.

You told people they can’t get shingles if they get the vaccine. That’s not true and that’s not right. Why you can’t say they might, but it’ll probably be milder I just don’t know.

Please don’t talk down to people. There are plenty of scientists on here anyway and everyone else is very well able to understand too.

With another scientist, I couldn't even tell them "if you drink a glass of water you won't die", because there may be a 0.00001% chance they actually would, for a number of reasons.
Yeah🙄🙄
You know what? Most scientists actually manage to talk like normal people to their colleagues.

You can make your statements generic if you like.
Please don’t make them wrong.

@Springadorable

All anti vaccine people are bat shit selfish people.
and have a fundamental intelligence issue.

They listen to crap, don’t understand population based health needs and frankly are beneath contempt.

they in a population sense hurt others

"After 2 doses, the chickenpox vaccine provides around 98% protection in children and about 75% protection in adults.
Further booster doses are not needed.
If you get chickenpox after being vaccinated, you'll usually have milder symptoms than someone who has not been vaccinated."

www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine/