Am I right to fight back here (employment issue)?

[Thepek]

Been with a law firm for almost 10 years. A year ago almost to the day I returned from maternity leave, DD is nearly 2. In the last year I’ve had 3 managers (constant changes in management which now seem to have settled), had some underhand stuff go on with a colleague trying to take work/arrange meetings behind my back which I raised with HR as I was so upset at the time but nothing was done and have not been included in pay review since my return from mat leave despite all my team having pay rises. I’ve not felt like I had any continuity or direction since being back.

Anyway in October I had a first meeting with the third (and seemingly final) change to my line manager. They said it had seemed a bit like I was trying to get to grips with things when I came back from mat leave but that things were very much in the right direction and they were pleased with moving forward into the next year and explained all the plans for the team that they wanted me to be involved with etc. In that meeting I specifically asked about performance and was told there were no issues with my performance at all.

Unfortunately in January I was unwell (for the first time in 7 years!) and off sick for two weeks. New manager was annoyed I had contacted HR rather than them directly when off sick and I explained that I had done that because I thought that was the correct procedure. It was a bit awkward and he seemed to be making a point. So, fast forward to the next catch up meeting which happened last week and I’m told that actually there’s serious concerns with my performance and that if I don’t sort it out within 4 weeks then HR will be brought in and I will have a formalised performance review. Obviously I asked to examples and he said I hadn’t saved documents to the right file site, I had made spelling mistakes (spelled February wrong on a document that I didn’t realise didn’t have spell check so it seemed it was correct) and that I hadn’t included the right documents in a list for a hearing. I asked for more examples and he said he didn’t want to go through that but he did have a list. He then said he thought I had lots of leeway since returning from mat leave and perhaps my focus was elsewhere or maybe I wanted to look to work somewhere else. I was pretty taken aback by all this and asked him to confirm if this was a formal procedure and he just said no, it would become formal in a month if no change. He said he would send me some objectives by the end of this week.

I honestly don’t know what to make of it. I never really gelled with him much but I didn’t dislike him. I get the strong sense he wants me to leave and now have zero confidence that he wants me to stay, it seems he is waiting to get HR involved. He said I could speak to HR if I wanted for ‘support.’ What I don’t understand is why he didn’t pull up these things at the time? Why leave it as if all was well then suddenly say this? I want to leave but in my own time and now feel pushed out.

Whilst OP works in a law firm, she doesn’t say she is a lawyer necessarily. In fact, I would assume most lawyers understand settlements quite well. It could be some other role.

@CoffeeFluff thank you. I’m on 76k. My main concern at this point is if I don’t get a job before the termination of my employment then it looks like a gap I can’t explain.

Just for context OP, I did my training at a firm where there was pretty much zero tolerance to even minor errors. Typos and missing full stops etc just wouldn’t happen because really high standards were expected. And the Bundle error is likely fairly serious (why did your boss do a draft though?)

So I could fully imagine a PIP taking place if your firm is similar.

Having said that, the lack of pay review is concerning, and the nod to your childcare responsibilities is too… is boss new to the firm, or just a new boss to you?

@Tiredofallthis101 my main concern is if I don’t find a job before the employment terminates then it looks like a gap. And if I don’t take say 6 months or something so it looks more intentional then I think that looks even worse .. and I cant afford six months off. So that’s my main worry.

manager has a child but set up is different as I’m single. I’ve been thinking about it lots and some moments I feel it’s all been really unfair and other moments I think well I haven’t wanted to stay anyway as it’s been hard with snall child alone. I think if they paid me for 6 months financially I would be ok but my worry would be a gap in employment or finding a job and that new employer wondering why the date of termination is so close to my interview etc

@MrsPinkCock with the bundle he had said what to draft in and I’d done that. He then updated it all with huge criticism and said I had misunderstood. He’s new generally. I keep wondering if I have read into things too much but there’s definitely been comments about my ‘home life’ and ‘where my focus is.’ It’s hard for me to understand those comments as aside from having to collect my child I never actually mention them or give any impression I’m prioritising home life

@Ciri that’s the main worry, even if I applied now for roles then it’s not going to add up timing wise is it? Because I will be mid way through the notice period already, so the dates of employment will look strange to a new employer

@eurochick thank you. As a former partner do you think they are likely to agree a settlement on this basis? I am so worried about it looking like a gap in my cv, that’s my main concern really. So if this all ends 3 months from now then it looks to another employer like I had already left

I don’t know why you’re so stressed about dates and gaps? It’s completely normal (especially nowadays) to just take some time out! You could say absolutely anything!

• sabbatical to spend time with your kids before a fresh new role, after 10 years in the same one
• went travelling
• just had a break
• wanted to wait for the right role, not just any role to come up

Just don’t worry about it - if you keep overanalysing this granular point about timings, you’re putting all your energy in the wrong place.

Whatever you do, do not resign. Given your length of service and role, I imagine your notice period would be at least 8 weeks and you would be due that payment even if you were dismissed at the end of your PIP. There would also need to be a pretty robust performance management process in place to avoid any doubt about the outcome as no employer wants to end up at a tribunal for failing to follow their own procedures. You are within your rights to request a without prejudice conversation and note the negative comments about your caring responsibilities and that will probably be worth considering from their side.

Ok. I’d see what they propose but I would say a great place to land would be that the “settlement” payment - the bit that is tax free - should be a minimum of £30k.

Your monthly gross pay is £6,300. You could suggest a months gross pay for every year you’ve been employed (£63,000). Obviously that’s ridiculously high and unlikely to be considered but if you start high, you’ll hopefully land at 50% of that.

Your monthly net salary is £4,500. That means you could survive on the settlement payment alone on a “normal basis” for 6 months.

You did not tell me your notice period but this would be added and paid in lieu, so let’s say it’s 3 months notice. Settlement of £30k plus your 3 months notice equals 9 months of normal net pay.

You could negotiate for it to be all spread out and paid monthly as salary, with you on garden leave, to delay your official termination date as much as possible.

In my experience law firms do tend to offer settlements fairly readily. If you start making noises about discrimination after returning from maternity leave I would expect them to offer you something. That's why I suggested you spend this weekend gathering evidence of that. Have a document where you collect together as many of the comments about focusing on interests outside work, etc as you can.

OP I really wouldn’t worry about a gap in your CV. They don’t bother me at all when recruiting, I don’t even ask about them (because I don’t want or need to know if someone took a break to look after a family member for example, or to spend some time with their kids. I’ve done it myself!)

I’d also add that I’ve had an another six month break in my CV (due to restrictive covenants) and nobody batted an eyelid. So any gap can usually be explained by you not wanting to breach post termination restrictions.

Im an employment lawyer though so very conscious of the potential for discrimination and unconscious bias!

Please stop worrying about a potential gap in your CV. A couple of months here or there really won't matter if you were, say, travelling, running a home improvement project, visiting family abroad, etc. if you catch my drift.

You need to decide if you want to stay or leave.
If you want to stay, then engage with the manager. Put in writing that you're grateful for his feedback and you'll look forward to the objectives and focus on the next 4 weeks. He said you can contact HR for support so do that too as a proactive measure but basically put aside whatever feelings you have about this manager and play the game. It's really hard to manage someone out who's engaging and trying and you are clearly not shit at your job as you've been there 10 years. So basically if they want rid of you and you're showing engagement with the performance management process they'll have to put a settlement on the table as they will know damn well it's a minimum 6 months to manage someone out and that person would need to be demonstrably not performing.

If you want to leave, start looking for jobs now. Spend this weekend writing a CV. Reach out to contacts in other firms and start the process of looking, contact recruitment agencies etc. Then play along with whatever happens at work, see what these objectives are and try to work to meet them. If he makes life hard then just get signed off for stress and string that out whilst you look for work.

I agree with your first paragraph if she wants to stay, but if she wants to leave there’s no way I would recommend getting signed off and looking for something else - why would OP do this when it’s so glaringly likely she’ll be offered a settlement??? She deserves to leave with a package.

Being off sick for months is the equivalent of a package. OP has already said she doesn't want to have a gap in employment so you can go off for sick for quite a while before sickness policies kick in

(1) your manager is an arsehole
(2) tye function of HR is not to be a threat to scare you with. Their function is to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid that will enable you to sue them for constructive dismissal. He clearly doesn't understand this.
(3) it is incredibly unprofessional to start mentioning problems for the first time in the context of disciplinary action.

I suspect that the reason he won't give more details of problems is because there aren't any more details and he just wants you to vanish. Employment doesn't work like that. You have every right to keep your job if you are performing reasonably well within reasonable targets. It is not reasonable to have a target of never making a mistake, there is always human error. In systems where mistakes cost lives there are multiple checks made by separate individuals to find and correct mistakes because no one is infallible

I think you should contact HR yourself and say that you are concerned about this situation because while you acknowledge that there have been a few minor errors your manager is creating a toxic working environment by threatening disciplinary action out of the blue without giving you clear information about what the issues are and reasonable targets for improvement.

@CoffeeFluff thanks so much for explaining. Do you think (based on the brief details here) that I have enough to push them into a potential settlement? I wonder if going off sick will force them to properly consider it…that’s what an employment lawyer’s view was when I spoke to them.

One other worry I have is whether if I’m on garden leave I am still eligible for the free nursery hours? Am I still employed for those purposes?

it’s nice to know that places wouldn’t necessarily see a gap in employment as a bad thing… that’s worried me hugely but I do have a plausible reason for a break with a small child and having moved house last year. Thank you so much for replying, I am very grateful.

@tiredoflondonbutnotlife thanks, I guess my concern was more that another employer would suspected leaving on bad terms if there was a gap? I’m probably overthinking it

Sorry but I think a 12 month settlement is highly unlikely. Firms don't typically offer that these days unless they know they've done something wrong, which on face value it doesn't look like here particularly, other than not be especially nice.

@RatedDoingMagic thanks for replying. I think there have been a few mistakes but literally nothing diffident or even worse than he has made or other colleagues. That’s what’s making me feel shit about it. There was a scenario a few months ago where I had to highlight to a senior colleague that they had made an error and it was then corrected, I wonder if he faced the same criticism as I have done. I doubt it.

I think he will try and say he’s said something wasn’t great on a couple of occasions already, which is true, I looked back at emails and there was one where he had said this is wrong sort it out aaap which I did (a formatting thing). So technically I guess he had raised it before? But I was totally shocked when he mentioned HR. He said he assumed I was expecting him to say this, I said no I wasn’t given the previous positive review. He was then silent and said he couldn’t list all the errors in this meeting as he didn’t think it would be productive.

Argh the more you update the more clear it is the man's an idiot. I had an employment situation a while ago where my employer tried to force me into doing something patently unreasonable when I was essentially a single parent with a toddler and heavily pregnant (DH works away for very extended periods). Boss insisted I had to do it (basically be pushed into a different job requiring wildly different working patterns that would've meant I couldn't have looked after my child). I was so devastated - the way he treated me, when I'd long been excellent at my job, was horrifying and I massively felt the pressure of needing to find an immediate solution. I was so frightened. Whilst a different situation to yours I say all this because I understand your fear, particularly as someone used to being highly capable. It's shit to be in an unjust situation.

But take a breath. As others have said employment gaps are much more acceptable these days. Start looking for new jobs but in the meantime get into that meeting with uour boss and HR and ask him to evidence his claims. Counter those with your evidence (eg you making the bundle up as boss said to). You have concerns about his competence and are worried he's trying to blame you for his errors. You also as above need to reference the possible discriminatory treatment (without using the D word yet). Be clear that you feel like you are being forced out due to no fault of your own and you don't see how you can continue to work with him after this, given he has failed to manage you effectively, blamed you for minor errors similar to those he himself has made, and blamed you for following his instructions - and has used these minor examples, never previously raised, as a stick to beat you with- you believe because he has come to the view that you being a single parent juggling home and work life I'd a problem, even though you have clearly met everything asked of you and it is normal that on return from mat leave employers give staff a bit of grace. Make sure you mention the lack of pay review as that also makes him look prejudiced against you.

Make sure you have all your ducks in a row and try to stay calm. You've got this. It is scary and destabilising but in a way it's good as you've found out your manager is a shit and this is your opportunity to get away from him.

@Tiredofallthis101 I keep second guessing myself and wondering if I’m being unfair on him. I think I just feel it’s quite hypocritical and that he’s not actually invested in me getting up to speed if he thinks I’m not, I actually think he just wants me gone. I can’t really put my finger on why but I have always had this sense he just didn’t really like me. Around four months into knowing him he said I didn’t have much personality that he could see… I expect he didn’t mean it as it came across but it was a bit harsh and sort of set the tone moving forward I suppose. I keep wondering if I do actually have enough to get a deal done and get out of there or whether they will laugh in my face at the things I mention.

I have been through something similar with a steady stream of line managers I.e think 3-4 in 18 months. Big corporate with a bell curve regarding measuring performance. From nowhere I was told my performance was not as expected.

I asked for examples and was told I submitted expenses late (they were only £30). Previous LM had told me to just claim when in the hundreds. Also that I had attended a meeting and something that I had said made a senior manager roll their eyes…. I asked what it was. They didn’t know! Just that it had happened.

So I got the union involved. Had a brilliant rep (not a great fan of unions per se). I took out a grievance and won! But it took a year. I had been with the company for years.

Got a new LM who was better but quite honestly I had enough. Took voluntary redundancy 18 months later and it was the best thing I could have done. Now work part time with full time hours if I want.

As others say. Do you want to stay? If not get your CV done. Start job hunting. How can you know how to improve your performance if you don’t know what you did wrong.

This twit of a manager should not be indicating that you are spending too much time with your child. Do these men ever learn??

If you are currently at Informal stage, you should be clearly told what the expectations are of your role over next few weeks and should meet weekly to discuss whether you are meeting expectations. If you are, each week, then after the 4 weeks it will not move to formal as there will be no evidence that it needs to. I would ride it out, get through next 4 weeks performing faultlessly but be planning a move as soon as able if you have lost trust in your manager.