Cancelling family trip?

[Lisalala91]

AIBU?

Parenting one - 6 and 8 year old boys!

I try to be as kind and gentle parent as I can be and now I have maybe created a rod for my own back? My boys have been so rude and dismissive of me and my husband - shouting at us, breaking toys (throwing switch controllers eg), refusing to do tiny jobs (put away library books, put rubbish in bin) etc. We have a weekend away planned which is a fair bit of driving and lots of fun things planned there. Both boys have expressed today how they “don’t want a family weekend” and stomped off. To be honest, I feel the same and would rather not go just now, but also aware this is likely a snapshot of my current feelings.

Would I be unreasonable and call their bluff and actually cancel the trip and stay home? Maybe I have been too permissive and let them get away with a lot (empty threats?) and this is unfair to them now? Don’t know; also exhausted and could do with fresh perspective. Thanks!

And this is exactly why gentle parenting mostly doesn’t work

I’d not let two children decide to abandon a weekend that I had planned and paid for. Family time is important and they won’t see it as a punishment if they’ve told you they don’t want to go. I’d go as planned but no screens at all. They can play car games or sit and be bored - it won’t hurt them.

I’d also start imposing consequences for bad behaviour - natural consequences are often too abstract for kids that age. If they throw things the thing is removed until I see a change in behaviour, and if behaviour slips the thing gets removed again. Privileges like screen time are a reward for behaving well, not a right. Talking things through is good and helpful but if it doesn’t change behaviour you need better strategies. You need to crack this now or you’ll have a hellish time when they’re older.

Works brilliantly when done well. DD is a delightful teenager, doing well at school, friends, gets on well with us. She has moderately severe ADHD and was failing horribly in Primary school. Gentle parenting means that she didn't hear the additional 10,000 negative comments most kids with ADHD hear before they are 10. She did hear 'no' about 10,000 times.

She knows when I tell her a boundary once, it will be enforced. The boundary will have instant, natural consequences and it will be enforced with love and empathy.

Having no boundaries and being ineffectual isn't gentle parenting. And having ineffectual parenting then shouting is the literal opposite of gentle parenting.

natural consequences are often too abstract for kids that age. If they throw things the thing is removed until I see a change in behaviour, and if behaviour slips the thing gets removed again.

You said they don't work and then described one.

Get
A
Grip
Of
Your
Children

Can it be said any clearer to you op?
Stop fannying around trying to be their friend, you aren't there to be their friend, you're the parent, now act like one

I'd be tempted to see if someone will look after them this weekend and then go away without them.

You need to start getting a grip of this situation before they get completely out of control. Lay down house rules and consequences for breaking them and follow through!

Someone throws a controller- Controller/Switch gets removed etc..

Set the rule and be prepared to enforce them. Kids need rules and discipline and gentle parenting does not mean that you dont discipline your kids.

My kids wouldn't dare shout at me.

@MrsTerryPratchett removing the controller isn’t a natural consequence, it’s a parent imposed one. A natural consequence would be the controller breaking and not being available, anything that involves the parent stepping in - to remove something, restrict access to something is parent imposed as a consequence of behaviour.

The problem with natural consequences is that they’re often relational (ie if you throw things people will back away from you), long term (if you don’t do your work at school you’ll fail your exams) etc or dangerous (if you run in the road you’ll get hit by a car). Kids need boundaries and parents need to impose consistent consequences or kids simply don’t learn their limits.

That’s lovely and it does work depending on the child. I did say most of the time on my post

Gentle parenting doesn't mean no boundaries and allowing children to treat you like dirt. You still have to parent your children.
I would cancel the weekend and start imposing boundaries and rules. Make sure your children know what you expect and what you will not accept.
Make sure they know what consequences poor behaviour will result in if that is how they choose to behave.

Is it 'calling their bluff' though ?
Why would they say they don't want to go if they do ?
Unless the trip includes things that you and your DH are looking forward to I'd just cancel.

My number one parenting rule that I’ve adhered to from the beginning is to never threaten something you’re not prepared to follow through with.
From day one you undermine yourself and your children hold all the cards.
Their behaviour sounds really poor but not surprising when they’ve been taught they can do what they want anyway and you’ll just roll over.
They need boundaries. Cancel the weekend away and for god sake take their bloody devices away.
And before anyone jumps on me for being a perfect parenting type, of course I’ve made mistakes, like all of us. But it’s basic level stuff to not make empty threats.

Hard work for a few weeks?! What's gentle about that?

I wouldn't cancel the weekend away but I would be taking away their access to any screens until I saw a big change in their behaviour.

Where is your DH in all this? it sounds as tho' the two of you need to step seriously to how to be a decent parent. Your DC are clearly unhappy with the boundaryless life you are giving them. They need you to do more than feed and clothe them.

It's really sad at that age they're saying they don't want a family weekend. Why aren't they excited about a trip away? You absolutely do not let them think they are calling the shots on whether you go or not, that's madness.

To all the posters saying cancel the trip that's giving the children exactly what they want?! Really bad idea

This. Digital detox and then limited use. Structure, boundaries, consequences, expectation management.

But you aren't calling their bluff, you're giving them what the want.

I completely agree with this. They know the trip is important to you, so they are trying to take it away from you. The only people who will suffer is you. They will be just as bad if you stay home. And they will have won - again.
Going against the grain. I would go. A change of scene might help.

They are 6 and 9.. testing your boundaries, the 6 year old is following the 9 year old.

For us. It was like not walking a dog. They had to get out every day and run about or they went stir crazy. Also I found that everything was easier in the open air. They had a phase where also wouldn't get in the car, wouldn't get out the car. These things go in phases. Rude - say so. Ask them if they would like you to talk to them like that? Fighting? Separate and distract. Both be on the same page. Showing them you are angry on a daily basis (and I'm not saying you are) just shows them that's the way to deal with things generally. So you have to put that to one side. Pick your battles.

Are you discussing things too much with them? Requesting? "Would you mind awfully getting in the car." or (I understand why) asking six times and then losing it and shouting at them "Get in the CAR NOW) . Its a bit like asking your MIL for permission or approval LOL. You wouldn't do that?

Try, quietly get everything ready, load the car, if they won't put on coats/ shoes.. put them in the car. No discussion. No appeals to their better nature. Its happening. We are not angry. We are just doing it. Bribes are good. I used to have a holiday party bag with fun things (identical so no squabbling) with card games, Kinder surprise, magnets, toy aeroplanes ( even 9 year olds like these). Instead of saying no then giving in to the pleas for ice cream. They get an ice cream or holiday allowance... you will be surprised at how long they spend choosing things, but also gives them a bit more of a say in things.

Telling them off all the time eventually goes in one ear and out the other, it starts to be ignored.. then you have to up the ante.. but you can't keep upping the anti. Best advice I was ever given is when they are getting more and more noisy, defiant or quarrelsome, don't join in.. start lowering your voice and try to keep calm. Set the example, even if you are not feeling it. Are other people/relatives getting over involved? Giving advice?

Take the 9 year old out on his own one on one. Buy him a treat and talk to him about his favourite things as you would a friend. No telling off. If he acts up.Just chat...ask calmly with no tone, why are you doing that? see what happens. Do the same with smaller one. Sometimes that's a way to get them really talking to you when not in a rush for school/bedtime etc... Ask what kind of holiday would you like? etc.. instead of them just saying no to everything. I think they are enjoying the power and the drama of all this. Imagine being able to stop your parents going on holiday, how powerful.

They are nearing the end of term and are probably fed up and exhausted...I found that always ramped up behaviour. Don't forget the 4.00 pm hangries. Pyjama day with plenty of food to catch up. Have a good look at things like school/friendships/activities and see if these need a new approach.

None of this works overnight by the way but its worth a shot. Have a good half term x

@Lisalala91 cancel trip. remove the xbox just by unplugging and ps 2 3 4 5 or whatever and lock them all in your car and keep the keys. they do not get them to play with. if they want to play, they can go to the park. they actually want to play with their games consoles!!

The little princes don't want to go?

I'd be taking them. Minus any devices.

Be prepared to engage and interact with them. Movie? Board game? Walk?

Treats if they're well behaved for eg an ice cream at the end of the day.

Agree.
They sound terrible. Congratulations OP.. you've created a couple of monsters

Hard work for a few weeks?! What's gentle about that?

@whatawonderfultime it's gentle because it avoids shouting, blame and shame and gives the child the opportunity to 'make good'. They broke something, they work hard, they pay for it. They have a sense of accomplishment that they solved a problem, they know the value of something.

The alternative is the controller stays broken, they don't work to pay to replace it, they don't have it. No work required, they get to choose. Rather than being forced to apologise and learning an apology is a 'loss' they learn that actions have consequences but they can 'win' but making things up to themselves and others. They can choose not to but they don't get the privileges of the first choice.

In both these cases, the child has choice, there isn't shouting, there is empathy and love, there is understanding.

My friends who used the 'shout and remove screen time' method have grumpy and/or anxious teenagers. Me, who used the 'how can we solve this?' method has a teenager who is (so far) happy and helpful. Parenting is a marathon not a sprint and she might turn on me next week but so far, so good.

Unpopular opinion…?

I'd see this as a major wake up call.

the trips would be cancelled and my little cherubs would be advised change is a-comin’

tech and screens would be removed
treat food would be removed - they’d be getting water / milk and meals with fruit as a snack no sweets/crisps etc
my DH and I would be sitting down to agree shared “standards of behaviour” and consequences from the kids
behaviour board with consequences would be going up.
chores would be introduced

It will be painful to tackle this but if you don’t get a grip now… it will be even more painful.

You need to tackle this head on and have been given excellent advice above. They will soon be bigger than you - you need to address the lack of respect for you, their home and their belongings or you are going to be in over your head in 5-8 years.

@MrsTerryPratchett has really great advice - what she describes is gentle and firm parenting, which gives children clear understanding of the impact and consequence of their behaviour.