Lucy Letby. Why do some people only read headlines?

[skyfirechesnut]

I was at work today and someone says so Lucy letby is innocent now. They have just gone with the media headlines. Instead of researching.

Sorry for the fail link but this is quite a good article below on the current state of things. The author has attended all trials and listened to appeals and conferences.

I also don't understand people who say she was scapegoated. If people follow the Thirwall enquiry this is far from the case. She was totally protected, her parents calling up, being in meetings, dictating apologies. It beggars belief.

I can somewhat understand people saying she is innocent based on medical evidence after the press conference but even that is nothing new.

You can't say my expert is better than yours.

Also people seem to think it was all Dewi Evans for the prosecution it wasn't. There was Dr Bohin, Prof Arthurs , Prof Hindnarsh and Dr Mar etc.

That is without the Doctor colleagues if you want to dispute them.

Then they new defence have changed ideas from the conference they had in December.

They are also not totally impartial.
It isn't as simple as the headlines.

Here is the article.

archive.ph/NYg7U

The panel isn't the jury though. They have no power to convict or clear.

Cold cot thing was never proved to be Letby - parents said at trial they didn't know what nurse it was. Same parents hadn't been told their child was still breathing - consultant had to be called back in to explain. So whatever nurse that was presumably hadn't been kept in the loop either.

It was quite a lot of texts - over thirteen months!

Nobody has said they wouldn't mind her texting while feeding their child. I've pointed out to you that there is no reason to believe that happened. Nobody claims to have seen it. No notes support it. The prosecutor just threw it into the mix to fluster her and prejudice the jury.

There is absolutely no reason a nurse should text during breaks. Opinion could differ on quiet times, but over 13 hours' work with peaks and troughs of action, I'd certainly expect her to have reasonable opportunities, and I would not object, no.

Many nurses have confessed to taking them home, so she is by no means the only one. FB searches are not terribly professional but she’s only accessing info in the public domain.

It’s not really up there in terms of unprofessionalism with - failing to treat hypoglycaemia correctly; failing to use correct size endotracheal tube causing 94% air leak; failing to appropriately treat S.Maltophilia infection; failing to treat mother and baby with antibiotics leading to infection and death of baby; inserting tube into wrong place leading to death of baby (Noah Robinson) etc.

taking home and hoarding hundreds of handover notes

Normal, widespread practice . Nurses all over social media confessing they do this all the time.

I don't know any nurse that has 250 sheets. In boxes marked keep.

Not normal. Data breach.

So you would be fine with your data at a nursed parents house in a box marked keep with your data on. Ok ok .

What do you mean by “they should have finished their report”?

It isn't ready until the end of the month. I thought you watched the presser.
@SnakesAndArrows

Who has said they'd be fine with this?

I wouldn't be agitating for the nurse to be reprimanded, though I'd certainly suggest they review practice and training.

There's a huge gap between no problem whatsoever ever and obviously a bad'un, and Letby like everyone falls somewhere between.

They've completed their independent (double blind) reports and subsequent reviews and conclusions.

They haven't completed the overarching report for the CCRC that it is based on, and I'm sure they are also doing the usual academic things - tidying citations, unifying style, checking for typos etc.

Presumably the press conference needed to be given after the experts had reached their conclusions on evidence of deliberate harm, and then at a time convenient to Dr Shoo Lee, who funded his own trip to London.

It makes no difference whether the full CCRC report is complete or not.

Nurses all over social media have said they have the same. They can’t be thrown away with normal trash, they have to be shredded or burned which takes a while, so they pile up until they have time/inclination to dispose of properly.

I’m not saying it’s not a GDPR breech, I’m saying it’s a perfectly normal (normal as in very common) thing that nurses do. This is just an empirical truth. Sometimes nurses will just shove their handover notes in a bag at the end of the shift and then once home they don’t get around to disposing of them because they don’t want to just chuck them in any old bin because they have identifying info. This may not be ideal practice, it may be a bit shoddy and disorganised, but it happens ALL THE TIME and has nothing to do with being a serial killer (or indeed just a crap nurse).

Nurses all over social media have said they have the same. They can’t be thrown away with normal trash, they have to be shredded or burned which takes a while, so they pile up until they have time/inclination to dispose of properly.

Or you know, just take them back into work and stick them in the confidential waste bin...?

Nurses all over social media are really not saying they have got hundreds piled up and which they have moved from house to house. Or if they are then they are very stupid to be admitting to it on social media.

She had a shredder!

One reason cited for it is - insufficient numbers of shredders - tired at end of day, want to go home, queue for shredder or it’s not working, they just take them home intending to shred there. One nurse said the broken shredder in her unit never got replaced so now they have nothing to shred the docs.

I couldn't tell the police whether I have a shredder in my house right now.

I had a small one once - good for single documents, wouldn't use for more. Is it in the attic or under a bed somewhere, or did I throw it out or get rid of it in a house move? No idea.

You really will defend her with anything.

I have a shredde. I also know where it is.

She hardly lived in a mansion.

Mind, if she kept the documents after learning she was accused of harming some children, I wouldn't blame her at all.

Obviously she took them home first and for unconnected reasons, but after that point? I'd be holding on to any relevant information I'd got, and yes, I'd be looking the families up online too, to remind myself who I was dealing with.

Well done, I suppose!

I live in a small terraced house and would have to root around a couple of hours to determine whether I have a shredder. People are different.

I am sure you don't have 250 data breaches under your bed.

I don't see it as relevant to the case anyway, although obviously the prosecution did. If it was just the babies she was accused of harming then absolutely that's suspicious, but they were a very small proportion of her searches and handover notes. The one marked 'keep' I believe was her first shift somewhere. I definitely see it as unprofessional but how it turned into keeping trophies or wanting to see parents grieving is a nonsense in the context of her overall behaviour. It was just something she did, and I suspect there is a not negligible of healthcare workers who do similar things - wrongly, of course. Even if the medical evidence against her was strong, the notes and searches would still be complete red herring IMO and actually indicates that they were probably no more significant to her than other patients.

skyfirechesnut · Today 13:23

It was more than just grabbing a text. It was a lot of texts. It is deeply unprofessional. Teachers can't have personal phones in the classroom due to safeguarding let alone on a ward.

This isn't the case with teachers at all.

This isn’t really a defence it’s just referencing nurses talking about their lives.

I have a shredder. I work from home and I have piles of work stuff that needs shredding which I put off because it’s boring and the longer I put it off the more stuff that needs shredding and the longer it takes.

Mind, if she kept the documents after learning she was accused of harming some children, I wouldn't blame her at all.

@Oftenaddled if this was an explanation then she didn't mention it in court and definitely should have done. Her explanation was that she had always collected paper (whatever that is supposed to mean).

Yes, I'm not saying she did that, just that I'm fairly sure I would have on her position.

I guess she had a lot of paper around. I work in a paper heavy job and some people keep tonnes of it around them. Others shred, digitise, dump. Very broad spectrum.

@rubbishatballet But what else could it mean? We all agree it's not good to keep confidential papers but I can't really see a sinister side (in the context of the case) to it given there was such a wide range of papers. She said she had trouble getting rid of things - procrastination, attachment, hoarding, whatever. I take that at face value but it seems people think it's 'part of the picture' of her guilt and I genuinely don't get why really.