To think being frugal is just another form of selfishness?

[BoldPoster]

People love to brag about being frugal but isn’t it just hoarding money instead of contributing to the economy and helping others?

There’s such a difference between being stingy and being frugal. Society encourages is to be spendthrift, capitalism conspires to separate us from our cash.
What gets my goat is those happy to exploit the generous impulses of others, and sponge off them repeatedly without any thought of reciprocity.

What’s the difference between stingy and frugal ?

Total tosh, OP! Being frugal isn't about "hoarding money", it's about being sensible with and not wasting money on shite you don't need.

Is
stingy = mean
and
frugal = careful

I'm fine with being careful but I still hate the word frugal and won’t use it.

At what point does ‘being careful with money’ turn into hoarding wealth?

When they become a billionaire.

Well - for a start, it can't turn into 'hoarding wealth' unless the people concerned are actually wealthy, @BoldPoster - and most people are nowhere near wealthy. Also, as @Changingplace said early on in the thread, most people are frugal because they don't have much money to start with, and need to be careful to make it cover all their necessities.

I think you are talking about stinginess or meanness, rather than frugality.

Yes it's a form of selfishness, but so is spending the money. You are selfish either way, your choice is based on what you think is best for you. You spend money because you want to buy something to make yourself feel good, or you spend it because it feels good to make someone else feel good. Selfish either way. Not spending money is selfish because you think it is best for you to keep the money, whether that's because you want to protect your own future interests or just get off on having a healthy bank balance. Putting away money for a rainy day is selfish, you are doing what you think is in your long term interest.

All actions are ultimately selfish. Someone who pushes their child out of the way of an oncoming train, killing themselves in the process is actually demonstrating a form of selfishness. Their instinct makes them do it because they wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they allowed their child to be harmed instead.

Utter bollocks, op. If someone wants to invest in their security and that of their children's then that sounds like a good use of money to me.

That’s true.
We are all selfish and all bad for the environment universally.

I have the most controversial opinion on this topic but going to say it anyway. People who can afford private healthcare but still insist on having free NHS treatment are the most selfish. They are taking the resources away from those who genuinely need it and contributing to a collapsing system.

Presumably, it's not "free" because they actually contribute indirectly?

WHO can afford private healthcare exclusively but pays no tax at all?

I think you need a nice walk in the fresh air OP.

Erm, do you not think if demand for private healthcare rose because people did as you suggest, that would lead to even more healthcare staff leaving the NHS?

There isn’t really an alternative though. The private system needs to be built up and connected with the NHS systems for this to work.

There should be a GP clinic for paying customers and a clinic for NHS patients and an actual real choice. If using the NHS became like using food stamps then this attitude would stop. The systems need to be connected though, like in other countries.

The tax argument is a bit obtuse because that could literally apply to everything. You don't get to take public transport for free or be exempt from the congestion charge even though your tax money is used to fix the roads and pay government employees .We all know that actual healthcare costs far more than what you pay in tax. The hourly rate for a doctor already exceeds whatever few pounds get deducted from your salary that might end up in the NHS.

A few pages back someone said her MIL had millions in the bank but still only buys yellow sticker groceries. Surely using the NHS is exactly the same as this. Nobody can stop her from buying the yellow sticker food but there is only a finite number of those and someone who is genuinely deprived will not be able to get a discounted piece of food.

And people pay tax in other countries too and don’t have free healthcare

Not at all. And in the long run, it is not spending money and consuming goods and services that contributes to economic welfare. It is providing goods and services that other people value that contributes to economic welfare. Spending money ultimately just pushes prices up. Reducing consumption leaves more to go round for everyone else. In the short term, spending more might give the economy a temporary boost, but that's all.

But you do get to use public transport and be charged or not charged for road usage on the same basis as the rest of the population.

Another thing that's not an infinite resource is medical staff. More demand in the private sector doesn't mean the same staff and services all continue to exist in exactly the same way as they do in the NHS, freeing up space. That's very simplistic.

Hoarding things is a problem. Hoarding money is not.

Try being disabled in a cost of living crisis, go insult someone else.

I wouldn't call people with a moderate or high income being mean about donating and tipping, 'frugal'. 'Frugal' means consuming modest amounts of the world's resources and taking care to make good use of whatever money you have. I don't know anyone who brags about being frugal though, so you may be referring to a type of behaviour I haven't encountered.

Not really. In most European countries, private healthcare is widely used to alleviate the strain from the public system. Most people who can afford to will use private doctors for convenience and there is absolutely no stigma attached. An average middle class earner will have private insurance or simply pay out of pocket if it's an emergency. The majority of doctors offer both public and private consultations and will refer their patients for treatments accordingly. So someone can see a private gynecologist but have their pregnancy treatments covered at a public hospital. Or they can request to have the entire birth private as well. It's really a case by case system but the overall quality of medical care is much higher than what the NHS can offer. There is also no risk of medical staff burning out because their everyday stress is much lower. A&E staff never have to deal with people who can't get GP appointments and hospitals are under less strain because more serious illnesses are diagnosed earlier and treated appropriately.

Being careful with money and hoarding wealth are two entirely different things.

But still, if you want to keep your wealth then crack on! As I said, the term 'hoarding' implies a mental health issue so this is completely different to being frugal. Also I would argue that people with more money do often contribute to society in the form of highest taxes etc. But if I have worked hard all my life and had a bit of good luck with a job or salary or an inheritance I don't think I should be made to feel 'bad' 'frugal' or a 'hoarder' if I don't want to give any of it away.

Examples of countries that have run a system in this manner for a long time don't tell us what would happen if the UK, with our specific socialised model and severe healthcare staff shortage, tried to change it now. Worth nothing that our closest neighbour has something similar and their waiting lists are a total horror.

You've actively taken a dislike to your neighbour because she said the word frugal? Is this for real?