Brother constantly taking money of mum with dementia

[Sasss1111111111]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, I really just wanted a rant. I would be surprised if you didn't agree with me but equally open to hearing all views

My brother and his wife constantly took money off my parents. They were the first to have kids and were always "skint" so my mum and dad bank rolled them for everything- holidays, kids swimming and sports lessons, clothes. Everything! My brother and his wife have 4 children aged 4 to 16

The thing is they only keep in touch with people that have a use to them. So people willing to give money to them, or babysit for them or whatever it may be. No use no contact, hence why my parents gave them so much money.

Their kids are the only children on his wife's side of the family. She has both parents desperate to spend time with their 4 kids well as aunties that dote on their kids as they were unable to have kids (and so no grandkids) themselves. In essende their kids have 4 lots of grandparents. All willing to do whatever they wanted them to do to keep access.

So as of today, my dad is no longer alive and my mum has dementia. Her concept of money is zero.(she thinks her house is worth £125). Yet he still asks her for money!

She is paying for their holiday. We've stopped her driving so he has asked her for car. He wants money to pay for his daughters driving lessons. Oh and he earns £80k a year!!

I have POA so this weekend I'm going to tell him he can't ask for money off someone who doesn't a) have that much and b) doesn't have the ability to know what she is agreeing to.

So... here goes me being frozen out and no longer seeing them or more importantly their kids. Or my kids getting to see their cousins or aunt/uncle. And possibly my mum also being frozen out too (hoping he will continue to help care for her but who knows)

Not sure if that makes sense, just wanted to brain dump as feeling rather upset about it .

Really sorry you're in this situation OP, sounds horrible.

If you have POA presumably you'll stop him getting anymore money. Could that affect his relationship with his mum as well as you? Depending on how far progressed her dementia is, might that be difficult for her?

He is financially abusing her and is a vile individual, if he freezes you and your mum out is it really a great loss if she is nothing but a cashpoint to him? I’m pretty sure that you have to show her money is being used responsibly too if you have POA for finances, he’s a nasty piece of work so put your foot down asap

You’re doing the right thing OP. He’s a c*.

She still lives on her own and knows who we all are. Her difficulties at present are mobility, speech, anything number related (so paying for stuff or making phone calls, keeping track of dates/appointment), and general confusion. We see her everyday to help her with something although she can get herself dressed. My brother goes through phases of how helpful he is... again tied to how useful mum is to her

I have a sister and another brother who also help with her. My other brother despises this brother due to his selfishness but remains civil for sake of my mum

The biggest loss is the loss of my neive and nephews and my kids losing their cousins.

My kids less fortunate family wise. Both grandads are dead and both grandma's seriously ill.

Sorry so many typos

The three of you siblings (minus money-grabbing fourth sibling) need to do what you can for her care and involve carers too.
He cannot be trusted, let him stop visiting if that's what he chooses when he's not receiving money. You already know he's not visiting because he cares.

It's actually pretty simple.

As POA you have a legal obligation to ensure your mother's money is spent in her best interests.

Your brother can ask/demand for anything he likes, but unless you can justify why spending that money directly benefits your mother then you are in breech of your responsibilities.

So no, he can't have her car (it should be sold to fund her care needs or pay for driving lessons.

You and he need be aware of legislation around deprivation of assets. Upshot is if you or he have taken money from her estate to avoid paying for care or in a reasonable anticipation she would need care (which is a given re her dementia diagnosis) you will be liable pay it back - and as POA you may be liable for criminal or civil prosecution if you have diverted funds against her best interests.

Your brother is a nasty piece of work and you can't stop him from cutting you off and the impact re: contact for the next generation.

All you can do is the best by your mother.

If you have poa then you need to tell him the bank of mom is no longer open to him. How can anyone do that to their own mom who's got dementia? I'm sorry but your brother is a disgusting ponce. Please tell him asap. At least he's not poa, that wouldn't bear thinking of. So sorry about your mom op

Is the POA in force? Has she been deemed to have lost capacity? If so, it’s as the other posters say. If not, it’s still terrible but a bit more of a grey area.

Ok thanks all. I know what I need to do and appreciate all the support .

I'm aware of deprivation of assets and keep mentioning this to him. He wanted 10k last year to help buy a house and I said only with a legal agreement. I even sought out a lawyer and got every set up for him. He spat his dummy out when I wouldn't allow him to draft his own agreement 😡. Ended up getting the money from somewhere else.

I check her finances weekly and challenge him on everything. But now she's at the point that I just don't think it's acceptable for him to even ask and I need to step in as poa. Which is the difference between now and then I guess

My dad would be devastated if he knew the money he earned was causing so much drama and upset. Missing him more than ever right now. He was the only one that ever did stand up to my brother on occasion

On verge of implementing. She's definitely confused but not.lost all capacity just yet so keep umming and ahhing when to implement. Will probably be sooner rather than later thanks to my brother

I'd do it now before it gets worse. I share POA with a family member for an elderly family member. If you are jointly doing it, make sure they are honestly having your mum's best interests to heart.

@Sasss1111111111 In my relatives case it required a doctor to sign off my relatives lack of capacity. If that is the same in your case, it might be worth trying to do that before you approach your DB. She might surprise you and be determined to have capacity, it’s not always straight forward… and if you can’t trigger the POA yet it will be harder to block DB influencing your mother, and if he gets wind of this he might up the ante before he gets cut off (ie before the POA can be brought into force).

I think you can stop it another way. If she no longer has capacity I don’t think she can give ‘gifts’ for the same reason.

i believe her finances can be investigated. Why not highlight this to him rather than be the one that stops it and put your kids relationships with their cousins at risk? Like, bro totally get she’s been a massive support, but now the dementia has progressed and POA has been instigated she can no longer gift, as no longer has capacity otherwise we can get in trouble with xyz agency.

Also I believe gifts can be reviewed as a deprivation of assets, if she requires local authority support for care in the future.

My mother also has dementia. It’s super stressful and upsetting. I’m sorry you are in this position. Just incase you are not a member I find this group really useful.
: https://m.facebook.com/groups/safeguardingfuturessocialcaresupport/

good luck

This. If you haven't done so already, you have to activate the POA with all banks and completely remove her access.

Doing anything less is negligence of your duty as POA. She clearly does not have capacity so therefore should not be in charge or her own money.

Your brother will have to come through you in future.

Definitely use the POA to turn off the taps. You need to protect her from financial abuse.

Depending on how the poa for finance was set up you don't have to have lost capacity to use it. But if your mum does have capacity she can technically still give her son money. That said your brother sounds awful

I cannot stress how very urgent it is that you implement this. I'm so sorry you're being put in this position by his selfish ways. Glad your mum has you.

Thank you really helpful

Your brother is earning 80k and your mother who has a diagnosis of dementia is paying for him and his brood to go on holiday and god knows what else? Shame on him! I would raise a safeguarding with social services. You need to put a stop to this.

Who has POA for health and welfare?

You need to finalise the POA for finances before he interferes and takes charge of this. If I were you I would raise this with social services and let them investigate because your greedy brother is financially abusing your mother.

I agree. Contact adult social care for advice.

You need to be extremely careful here op, capacity can fluctuate and can vary depending on certain decisions - it is decision specific. You are POA and you need to act now to get proper advice otherwise you could land yourself in trouble.

Please make sure you have your mum's cheque book. My mum was still bankrolling my brother when she moved into care.