To think school can be damaging for some children

[AliceAbsolum]

I'm looking into schools for DD. I thought I'd be interested in SATs results, but actually we are leaning towards the more relaxed/forest schooly (whatever the fuck that means) no or very little homework style.
I think especially in the 4-11 age group, and with the current mental health crisis with young people, I'm just scared school will be yet another aspect of toxic modern life that will damage her.

If you have wanted to homeschool but cant, or have similar worries, what kind of state primary school would you consider for your DC?

YANBU.

I had unmet SEN which two of my primary school teachers dealt with by sending me out of class, screaming at me and, on one occasion, sticking a list of stationery I needed on my desk on bright yellow acetate. The school wouldn't give me a statement, and one of those two teachers told my mother that one day, she'd offered me some sweets and I'd finished my work, no problem; I have no recollection of this event 🙄.

In high school, teachers mostly left me alone but I was constantly bullied by other kids and that's when my mother pulled me out.

I developed severe social anxiety as a young adult, much of which centres on people being annoyed or angry with me. I think those early experiences have a lot to answer for, but it was nearly 30 years ago so I hope schools are a bit better now, for SEN and in general.

If I hadn't had SEN, my state primary might not have left me traumatised.

Totally agree. If you are not rich enough for private (unlike most of mn it feels at times) then choose a primary that is a feeder for a good secondary. I did not understand that this is a higher criteria here than being near to the school.

I agree with others that it's the secondary that is the issue. Within two days of my first placement as a secondary school teacher I came home to my DH and said we can't send DD to secondary school. I worked at a huge secondary first which was horrendous, and then at a lovely small secondary with 400 kids, but we weren't in the catchment for the small secondary. All we have in our catchment is these huge, uber strict secondaries with a terrible reputation.

We ended up starting DD's home education halfway through Year 5, as her primary wasn't pushing her enough and she felt unsupported (she was ending up being used as a buffer and a tutor for less able kids rather than being given appropriate work herself), but we've known she'd be home educated for secondary for much longer! It's the best choice we ever made; she's thriving at home and loves it. We ask her regularly whether she'd like to try school and she looks at us like we've gone crazy 🤣

My youngest is now 17 & year 12 & I'm SO RELIEVED that soon he will be leaving secondary school forever 👏 I feel so sorry for younger kids (my nephew is 8 and currently attending year 3 in a northern primary only one day a week while he waits for his EHCP to come through). Most secondary schools near me have become a lot more stricter with their rules and are also struggling to cope with a growing number of diverse SEN kids - some of whom shouldn't be in mainstream schools but who have nowhere else to go. It's heart-breaking. Many teachers are overworked/exhausted/disillusioned too and a couple at my son's school are bullies themselves/totally unsuited to teaching and should get a different job. My DS does ok due to his personality- he's not got anxiety, he's not a 'worrier' or an overthinker. His part-time job at 16 was an eye-opener for him I think -working with adults who weren't all nice etc. But he's thrived there. My DD (20) on the other hand found secondary (& primary) a lot more stressful as she has some social anxiety and is an introvert. She enjoyed 6th form more and absolutely loves Uni life. I wonder if extroverts prefer school and introverts find it harder? Any kids with SEN are going to struggle I think. Good luck to anyone choosing schools at the moment 💗

I was actually discussing this, my best friends daughter is having such a miserable time at high school. My own daughter doesn’t particularly like it either. Friendships aren't the same anymore, they’re all far too focused online and happy to throw anyone under the bus.

My oldest hated it (thriving now). If I’m honest the curriculum is very outdated, the amount of nonsense and ridiculous political opinions from teachers they’re subjected to isn’t beneficial at all. I myself hated secondary school too, I personally cannot wait until mine are fully done with the schooling system. Looking back we should have homeschooled them and really went for it and done it properly.

We tend to get primary right for most kids in this country, it's secondary where the majority of the issues are: behaviour, lack of SEN support, teacher retention crisis etc. Shows no signs of getting any better either. However it is a postcode lottery, there are some great state secondary schools, but equally there are some horrendous ones. I would chose primary based on which feeder secondary schools you have.
Also, if you can afford it, be prepared to look at alternatives eg independent schools/homeschooling etc.

It's very early days here so I'm going to say this tentatively whilst touching ALL the wood...

I was really worried about my son going to school. He's awaiting an autism assessment - I know, I know "who isn't these days" blah blah blah. He's bright and curious but very anxious, very rigid, struggles with crowds and transitions amongst other things. We moved nurseries because the first one just wasn't right and he wasn't coping. The 2nd nursery was amazing, very supportive and he came on slowly but surely there.

We saw 3 schools and in the end opted for our closest - literally a ten minute walk, very good facilities, staff seemed very supportive and clued up, lots of space and lots of the children from the nursery go there. We don't need wraparound care so he's only there 8.45 till 3.15 and is home at 3.30 unless we go to the park. He wouldn't come with long days.

I was really worried about how big it is though (3 form entry for reception) and worried he'd get "lost" in all the chaos.

We had meetings before he started and some "reasonable adjustments" were agreed (just minor ones like being allowed his comfort item, ear defenders for the lunch room, staff knowing he may sometimes need a quiet space first thing) We got books on starting school, did practice runs with uniform and walking there in the mornings. The biggest plus was that he had a little group of friends going up with him from the nursery so he had some friendly faces straight away. His teacher also went to see him at his nursery (the school initiated this after seeing what a disaster the "stay and play" sessions were!)

Towards the end of his nursery time last year we were struggling to get him out of the house as his separation/transition anxiety had gotten so bad. I was genuinely on home schooling FB pages and doing research as I was so sure we'd have big issues.

Anyway... He is absolutely thriving. He loves school! The routine of going every day, knowing what they're doing each chunk of the day, having a lovely group of friends and supportive teachers is doing him the world of good. He won star of the week after a month or so for "bravery and resilience" when he went a whole week going in happily - I know everyone gets star of the week, but I cried when I read it because I was so proud of him, it really was a huge step forward for us that I didn't see coming at all.

He struggles after holidays and he found the pre Christmas chaos a bit too much, but the staff are amazing, they keep us informed and don't mind us calling to check after a particularly bad drop off or asking for a meeting when he's got appointments coming up so we have something from them to hand over etc.

I know it's early days and I'm very very aware that it's often year one or above when things start to come undone and we're already taking steps to prepare for next year. But his teacher thinks he'll actually continue to thrive as he'll love the more structured approach and he loves learning and taking it all in etc. They agree he'll need support and seem willing to help with that and we're prepared to advocate for him if needed.

I guess what I'm saying is, you might be surprised. Look for a school with supportive staff, ask local FB groups or friends with older kids (although everyone will have a different experience as no kids are the same, obviously) Almost all of my friends kids have loved it so far, they come home really proud to show what they've been doing or come out with funny stories about their day etc. But also if you feel really strongly about it, don't be afraid to think outside the box and look at other options!

Oh we're also bracing ourselves to possibly home educate from secondary school, but it's a long way off so we're focusing on the next couple of years at primary first!

When my eldest started school we were so lucky and had 2 excellent rated schools and 2 good rated schools all within walking distance. Eveeyone thought we were silly for not going to the best school in the area, but we chose a good after we felt it suited us better. We ended up with a small class of 22. And by Easter it was a full class of 30 as 6 children had joined from the 'excellent' schools (not sure where the other 2 came from).
Everyone is different and looks for different things. As long as you are doing what YOU think is best for your child, everyone else opinions are irrelevant.

I don’t think I was ever the same after primary school in the 60s. Horrid place

As it happens yes I do. Special unit.

Primary school was a happy, nurturing, safe environment for my daughter. Secondary has been damaging. And there’s no viable alternative school nearby - in fact the school she’s at is the one everyone wants their child to go to as it has the best reputation!

Agree but part of that experience comes from being at school and seeing the best and worst parts of it.

You would hope the class clown would be reprimanded.

My children were Sen and I was lucky to be given advice through the hospital paediatric psychiatric department, rather than the local authority education department ( who I had an excellent relationship with - I cannot fault them either). They are both in their 30s, so I know things are different now.

So the advice from the psychiatrist, who had children of similar ages in the local school too:
Whatever teachers might think, the benefit of schools is socialisation. Nothing we can do as parents can give our children the socialisation they will have at school. Children will encounter difficult people all their lives and school helps them learn how to make friend, realise that not everyone is as friendly as they seem. There are bullies, people who are different and school is a place where children can learn to deal with everyone in a (hopefully) safe space.
Education need not be the most important thing. Most parents can supplement their children's education outside school - the 3 Rs, for Primary children are easy enough, but the arts, sciences, history, geography can be led by children's interests and build on what's done at school. Weekend outings can have an educational element too - recognising trees from their leaves, sea creatures at the beach etc. Secondary education is more difficult when the subject go beyond what parents learned. We were lucky, between us we could cover most things, but for exams we did employ tutors. Explore sharing a tutor with other families.

My advice is to be 'that parent'. I certainly was, particularly in Primary school. Some of the teachers there thought they knew all about the conditions (they didn't) and thought they didn't need to learn (they most certainly did. Integration was very new in our area). I chaired a Sen parent's group for the local authority which gave me access to senior staff at the department. I was also elected to the School Board by other parents (we don't have Governors here) so was able to represent other Sen parents at meetings and other parents too. The Educational Psychologist persuaded me to run training workshops on disability at several local schools - it was a revelation to me and I know that there were some teachers who were very resistant to integration in schools. (Yes, I had the ability to be an absolute pain in the backside and was probably viewed as such!)

For me, secondary school was a joy. Teachers there recognised that they didn't know everything and were keen to learn. They would contact me if there was a problem (Primary school would contact the Ed Psych after letting it continue) and we would reach a solution together. It was so much better and easier to work in partnership.

Ultimately, it all worked out and was worthwhile. Both offspring went to university, achieved good degrees (counter to expectations at Primary School) and I heaved the greatest sigh of relief the day #2 finished final exams. I have never had anything to do with schools since and do not want to ever again.

I do think it's important to keep an open mind... don't assume your DC will dislike school or feel huge amounts of pressure. I have two DC...both enjoyed primary school a lot. Ds hated secondary but my DD loves it...she actually has some minor sen, so it's not necessarily a disaster for those with sen.

I am not minimising any of the suffering that anyone's children have experienced from being at school, but I think a thread like this is only ever going to be filled mostly with responses saying school is terrible for children which will give a skewed view for the OP.

I think there is more bullying in the adult world than people might realise. Might not be as overtly as in school but the number of threads on here about shitty work colleagues and boss’s is worrying.

I agree in your spare time you can chose what you do and avoid these types but everyone needs to work and we can’t influence who we work with, yes we can move jobs but that’s not necessary an option for some or it’s not as easy.

I loved school and my kids both love school too.

I think it's because school naturally aligns with our interests and preferences but also because we are realistic about what school actually is. It isn't a holiday camp or somewhere to have a relaxing, wonderful time. It's a place to challenge yourself and learn difficult skills and lessons, not just academically but socially too. There are tough times and things won't be absolutely to your preferences but this is just preparation for real life where you have to do things you don't want to do and have to deal with difficult and different people.

I would definitely opt for a school that has striong focus on mental health, self expression, fun.

The school I chose for my ds was like that but then it became part of a trust and gradually became more like a business with top grades seen as the success.

They now start teaching reception curriculum in nursery, year 1 curriculum in reception and so on.

He's in y5 now and I wouldn't choose that school again.

One thing I would want to look at is staffing. If there's multiple teacher and TA recruitment every year I'd find that concerning.

I'd also want to know, average class sizes and if each class has a ta .

Not all Steiner schools are private - the Steiner Academy in Much Dewchurch, Herefordshire, has been state funded for some years now.

There are good and loving primary schools with little homework and an outdoor approach. They tend to be in rural areas, because it needs a smaller school to fully achieve this.

School can indeed be damaging and very often is - too often. And yet the system grinds on and we watch our next generation wasting their childhoods feeling miserable and being put off true learning; and so often finishing up anxious and stressed.

I thought I’d tagged you but forgot 🤣 - I’ve replied to this but it’s a couple of posts above this

Take SATs results with a pinch of salt. They mean very little. In an average class of 30, it only takes a year group with a few kids to mess up on the day/SEND/EAL etc. for the results to drop. Look at LA reports/governor reports around the effectiveness of teaching and learning. But above all, look around, meet as many staff as you can, observe the children. Look for happy, engaged kids having fun learning. You want your kids to enjoy going to school so they develop a love of learning and build happy brains.
Home schooling is the right option for some, but I would be wary of choosing it because you’re fearful of school - try school first. My children’s school is 8 miles away because that’s the one we loved and they thrive there. You can always take your child out to homeschool. But moving from homeschool to school is very difficult in the cases I’ve seen.

From my own children's experiences I really wish I'd sent them to the primary school that had set homework each week rather than sending them to the more relaxed school.
Secondary school was such a culture shock for them they really struggled to settle until about ½ way through year 7!

Thanks everyone, such helpful advice. I'm looking into feeder schools now for decent secondarys.