To ask if you (also) just ignore your "required" days in the office?

[Everythingisnumbersnow]

I am supposed to do two days. But the office is a minging hotdesk box full of coughing weirdos and the toilets are smeared with shit by 910am.

I can't do my job well in the office so I just don't go. I do manage people and they seem to appreciate the flexibility (half go into the office sometimes, half never do, we perform well).

Anyway it's been a real eye opener for the power of low key just defying silly rules.

Anyone else?

(If they cracked down I'd go elsewhere)

I actually think there are so many socially dysfunctional people on this site. This weird refusal to leave the house and go to work...in many cases I can only assume it's undiagnosed autism. All of these people who find it so archaic, presumably still rely on others getting their arse out of bed to work in warehouses/hospitals/ etc. Human connections matter. Building good relationships is key to success. I work in a business with crucial frontline workers and they state over and over again they can't get hold of payroll etc when they're working from home. As such, a central service desk is being brought back in house. If there was good evidence that full wfh was successful, why on earth would businesses be bringing people back in...it would be just illogical if they could provide services/make a profit better from home. All the people who loudly proclaim they work better from home...what is if you are delivering? It is better for some individuals undoubtedly. The introverts of society shall we say. But it is not better for business or our economy would be motoring and people would be shutting down offices in droves to take advantage of this brave new world. FYI the toilet thing is definitely an OCD/anxiety issue. I think you need to acknowledge that. Most of us just move along to a different cubicle as necessary and report to facilities.

The amount of people using the training of junior staff as an excuse not to WFH makes me chuckle. After uni and PhD, I was self employed. Just started a new remote job last year and have been efficiently trained using remote tools and a Google doc to check my work. It's not that hard and junior staff are likely much better at it than those saying it's impossible to train them like that! It just takes decent systems and management

I was all ready to vote YABU, but your situation sounds grim, so YANBU. If they are going to force people to come into the office, they need to provide suitable facilities that are clean, and not so overcrowded that going in is a nightmare and you never get any work done.

More generally, I think it depends on the job that you do. Some jobs are better done remotely - more ability to concentrate without being interrupted, for example. But others involve a certain amount of contact with others - both customers and co-workers - so it should be tailored to the type of job and how well you are able to meet your objectives. If it upsets some people that they have to go into the office more than someone else, then that's their problem.

Because not everyone is you.
Because not everyone has a PhD.

Our new recruit hasn't a clue how to use excel, and sharing screens with him isn't working. Yes, he has a degree.

You made me laugh. You think people have autism because they can't be bothered dealing with commuting and wasting time on small talk? Just because I WFH, doesn't mean I don't speak to people via video call every day.

Also for me personally I live rurally and it's at least 30 mins each way driving to a town in rush hour and then the faff of parking, not to mention the cost. It also means I'm on hand to do the school run before work, and to pick up our DD to hand over to DH when I get home. You can't really blame people for preferring a much better work-life balance...

Edit to add that enabling more parents to both work more hours as less time lost to commute is surely a good thing for the economy. And a reduced reliance on fossil fuels is a good thing for everyone

Chuckling about the sweeping generalisation and personal anecdote there.

In my office we have 2 excellent second year trainees who will have their pick of departments. They picked mine because all the team they trained with are in at least 3 days and the 2 senior people, including me, are in 5 days. They are not interested in working for remote managers.

In general the trainees prefer being in the office.

You've been promoted twice because you've been hole in the corner non compliant and fortunate enough its gone under the radar so far. You are a person who behaves one way to your managers faces and then sneaks around doing and saying something different behind their backs. Clearly you feel this is working out for you and good for you while it lasts. However, you haven't scored a victory that makes you some trail blazer, superior to the compliant people, or stuck it to The Man. Because The Man doesn't even know. If you were coming on here to tell us how you'd made a compelling argument to convince your employers of the benefit of WFH, or raised issues about accessibility and comfort in the office to drive change, then that would be a sign you were doing well as a manager.

You have your maths wrong it’s 60% at home 40% in the office. Ie two days a week in the office.

Replies with personal anecdote and generalisation :)

I get different people like different ways of doing things. I just don't think that with the tools available now it's worth wasting hours a week commuting. I do accept that I'm an introvert though. Very happy that my job is an option now, so I can like rurally in Cornwall rather than having to move to a city or even London, which would have been the case for my job pre COVID.

Edit: before I look like too much of a bumpkin, I have lived and worked in London previously! WFH means that decent jobs are accessible to rural communities though.

Just as well as you obviously aren't capable of being "nice" period. To be honest, you'd struggle like fuck in the private sector.

Replies with personal anecdote and generalisation :)

Did you think I didn't notice?

You're also comparing apples with something that isn't even a fruit when you talk about how easy it was for you as a graduate and PhD with a work history, including being self- employed, to be trained in your new job compared with the training of junior staff who are new to a work environment.

I do this (and allow my team to as well). Whatever they dictate from the top, I always make the right noises as though I’m in support of it, and then just ignore. They are an employer, not a jailer! I do my job and meet all my targets, that should be all that matters. My team definitely appreciate the flexibility and they all come in without complaint when it’s actually necessary.

Sick of middle-aged men with stay at home wives making these crappy decisions that affect everyone else negatively!

As always there is nuance. I really enjoy the ability to WFH more flexibly and it has had a positve impact on my life. However it is undenaible that there are aspects of my job that just work better in person. It is better for my mental health and career development.

I think it is easy to get stuck in a rut with remote/WFH as it doe smake yoir lofe easier and les effort. I used to travel a lot for work before Covid, I am not going to lie that it is good a lot of those meetings are held online. However something is lost.

I have just started on a scheme that my industry runs to get more diversity in to senior roles. As part of it I am doing a year ling secondment shadowing various senior meetings at another organisation. They have made it clear attendance is generally expected in person. Last week I had to travel and stay over for a night and two days of meetigs and site visits I did initially feel a bit put out - it mean I needed to be organised, get up early for a train, not attend a couple of evening things at home.

However I came back buzzing - it was really good to attend the meetings and social events in person and I learnt so much more than I would have done over Teams, inclidung observing a lot of those intangible social skills and relationsip building you need to progress to more senior roles.

Surely if it is in your contract to attend the office for x number of days a week then you have to comply?
Wouldn't not complying incur a disciplinary?

Remember this is the Civil Service we're talking about, @RampantIvy, where IME the whole culture revolves around "can't" and "shan't"

The first challenge would be finding someone to care about any lack of performance, the second locating anyone prepared to accept responsibility for doing anything about it

To be honest, you'd struggle like fuck in the private sector

Edited to add that's why a considerable number in the private sector regard previous public service as an automatic bar, @ginasevern
As a professional recruiter I've known so many who simply feel the mindsets will never mesh

I really hope this is all made up. Otherwise it's fuel to the flames that there are too many Civil Servants being paid too much to do very little.

So there are people actively smearing? As in using their hands to smear stool over the toilets?

Don’t blame you OP, some jobs really can be done remotely and it irritates me that some companies are so closed minded.

I work much better at home as my role requires focus. When I go to the office people interrupt me and I don’t like the desk set up they have.

When I joined my ex company I had written in my contract to wfh 2 days a week but post Covid I just went on on a must need basis.

In current job I go into the office 2 days a month. I enjoy those days and see them as soft skills / building work relationships days. They typically ask for 3 days a week but I live 5 hours away and my role is in short supply hence them allowing it. Again I made sure it’s in my contract.

If you get a new role ever, propose your requirements in the interview stage. I would suggest a softener like I did I.e. visit once a month to build relationships etc. If they’re against it you know they’re not right for you. If they agree, get it in your contract.

Ooh little things, like ensuring compliance with the law is a matter of obedience. Or going by rules that you personally may not know the reason for but there usually is a good reason e.g. proper archiving, using the latest version of something etc. Children being taught good manners or how to behave, they are taught to obey certain things by their parents. Rules about how you can or can't talk to or about clients. Obeying rules of the road.

So do you advocate that being DIS-obedient is a desirable trait?

People like you are why my workplace are now upping from the required 2 days to 3 or 4....the view is its the only way to get the shirkers in for 2 days at least. So yeah thanks for that OP 👌

There’s plenty of research to say that junior staff are more likely to want to work in the office at least some of the time. I’m glad being a remote worker has panned out for you but do you think your personal experience negates that research?

We have two required days but I regularly just do 1... and when my boss is on holiday I do none. Work gets done either way.

Some peoples heads are so far up their own arses it's not other peoples shit they see.

Someone in my workplace does what you do. On the surface to their face everyone makes a show of being ok with it... They think it's super flexible where we work and everyone thinks they are brill.

Quietly behind closed doors our manager is getting really sick of it, there's talk of disciplinary procedures at senior leadership meetings and the sentiment more widely is people think this individual takes the p*ss.

Because here's the thing, while they are hiding out at home everyone else is in the office and talking about that person's absence.... Again.... And again...

We have to go in twice a quarter for structured team days. I have sometimes gone in to use a shredder or for leaving drinks after work. If we had to go in any more frequently, I'd leave. This is literally my dream job situation. (The loos are very nice, though, so maybe I'm being unreasonable.)

I am sooooo much more productive at home than going into office where Bill from Accounts can sidle up to my desk and make inane comments while I try to write a report. I would skip compulsory days tbh. My whole team works remotely and has done since 2020. We're the highest performing.

Yeah people like you OP are why my work are now insisting on 4/5 days in.

We had a 2/3 rule.

Piss takers who never came in made it feel empty in the office so now we've been told to come in more or face disciplinary/loss of bonus.

Thanks a bunch OP.