We cannot continue taking on immigrants indefinitely

[MobilityCat]

I'll probably be shot down for saying this but Immigration should be strictly controlled or we'll all become significantly disadvantaged. While international law doesn't require asylum seekers to stay in the first safe country they reach, some governments argue they should. There is a belief that the UK has a fairer asylum process, more legal protections, and better opportunities for work and education compared to other countries. While the reality may be different, word of mouth and social media often spread the idea that the UK is a good place to seek asylum. Our reputation as a desirable asylum destination is straining social services, housing, and the asylum system. The NHS and schools face increased pressure, housing shortages worsen, and asylum backlogs lead to long waits and high costs. Public frustration is growing, fueling political divisions. The system is unsustainable due to financial burdens, fairness concerns, and security risks.

TrainGame, you've hit the crux of the matter. So in order for the population to contract could you put an age on when the NHS should no longer treat economically inactive pensioners? Also would you include premature babies in your plan as they may or may not grow up to economically contribute to society and there's an increased risk of disability.

@username299

Mate, you’re mostly wrong. Hotels for asylum seekers are £3k a month pp round here. I work with refugees: the poor sods at the council and Care for Calais are panicking.

Be as rude as you like - people with even a passing acquaintance with the facts won’t worry.

MN needs a Bleating Auto-Accuser forum.

This thread’s a bit like being savaged by a dead sheep.

Show me.

Why do people keep arguing that we need immigrants to pay for the pensioners?

The majority of the 5 million plus immigrants who have come into the country perfectly legally over the last 4 years are low paid people and their dependents.

The government's own office admits low paid immigrants cost the taxpayer almost half a million pounds each by the time they are 75.

Over the next 6 or 7 years, they will become eligible for British citizenship, and able to access the full range of benefits that every other citizen can, including social housing.

The evidence suggest that most of these immigrants will remain low paid, as will their children.

So instead of helping pay towards pensioners, they will also need supporting financially.

At the moment, we're not feeling the pinch, at least financially, from the enormous number of immigrants, mostly low paid, who have come in under Boris's extremely lax regime.

As a million people a year become citizens, and eligible for the full range of benefits, what then?

The government is already muttering disability benefits are unaffordable.

You really can't have mass immigration and a welfare state.

The welfare state depends on low paid immigrants who provide cheap social care. What work do you think the low paid immigrants are doing? They are providing cheap building/cheap social care/ and cheap agricultural work! also in the hospitality and tourism trade. The welfare state especially social care is hugely dependent on immigrants providing low paid work. Likely you have to immigration or you won't have a welfare state! Or a much much more expensive one which will mean a lot higher taxes. Also immigrants tend to much younger than population as a whole so don't use the welfare state as much. HAs anyone gone to a nursing home or hospital recently?! Or even a farm and seen the pickers there?

Of the 5 million plus who have come in over the last 4 years, there were multiple dependents for every worker.

With the UK's and Europe's birth rate falling, how do you think government's are going to get the taxes to fund pensions/healthcare/social care in the future too? Pensions and healthcare take up a lot more of the government's spending than any spend on immigrants! Unless workers get a lot more productive due to AI for instance, there will be immigration. It's inevitable. It's a bit weird how people think that the economy is unsustainable because of immigration! It's actually the opposite way round - it's unsustainable without immigration. Which is why UK's farms/businesses/healthcare are requesting Gov provide more immigrant visas. The public may be demanding less immigration but businesses and healthcare are demanding more. Unless you know of lots of UK born workers out there who are happy to work in old people's homes and farms for a pittance, there will be immigration.

Bingo! That chestnut didn't take long, did it?

The debate whether immigration is a good or bad thing is pointless. It's only the politicians like Farage who benefit from it. The reality is ageing population plus falling birth rate means immigration is inevitable unless people are happy to accept falling pensions/much higher taxes and really poor care of the elderly in the future. Generally you shouldn't criticise immigrants for being poorly paid. We pay less taxes into social care because of it! And get cheaper buildings and cheaper farm produce! Maybe AI will mean productivity growth and we won't need so much immigration but that will take time.

Those poorly paid immigrants are often working in social care meaning you don't have to pay such high taxes! And providing care for the elderly so you don't have to. Or building houses much more cheaply. Yes - they may use the NHS and their children may go to school and get educated again providing more taxes in the future. But really what do you expect - for them to work for a pittance and not get any benefits or paid at all.

Given the UK's falling birth rate, maybe it's good thing the immigrants have dependents. I'm not sure who people think are going to be paying for their very expensive healthcare and pensions when they get elderly and retire. It's healthcare and pensions which take up a huge proportion of government spending not education or even benefits. I also don't know of many immigrants who are taking disability benefit when they come over! Most of them work in tourism/agriculture/healthcare.

At the moment the immigrants aren't paying for pensioners so much as looking after them!

It’s not about the existing population, it’s about the constant pressure of external people coming in. How do you propose to house million after million coming in? And what is your limit? Do we take 5 million, 20 million? All the people who ever wanted to come.

What is the limit? It isn’t there one? We have endless capacity despite being £2.7 TRILLION in national debt with interest payments getting higher every quarter.

Immigration adds at best 1% to GDP. It puts massive pressure on the NHS, public transport, infrastructure generally. We are running out of water, national grid cany keep up with demand and needs replacing.

We have zero planning forward for these people, no houses.

Currently they are living in Premier Inn for £3k per month.

This is not how I want my tax spent.

They contribute the least: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/#

That's a good article - "OBR forecasts have generally estimated that higher net migration leads to lower deficits and debt, because migrants tend to be of working age."

Also they don't contribute that much to GDP because they tend to low paid professions such as social care and healthcare not in highly productive well paid jobs. The UK unlike Australia doesn't take so many skilled immigrants. However the low paid ones in construction are building houses and the low paid ones in social caree are looking after elderly. So they contribute to the UK economy that way. If we took more highly skilled immigrants they would contribute much more to the UK economy but then people might complain they get paid too much and are taking away jobs from British workers! At the moment people like Farage are complaining that immigrants don't contribute much to the UK economy adn that's because UK chooses to give visas to healthcare workers who are not paid particularly well. If they gave visas to highly skilled immigrants, it would be a different story.

Traingame's article posted actually says immigration is consistent with UK Government having lower deficits and debt! Which is I think most people would agree a good thing!

That's because immigrants tend to be younger than average and be of a working age. More immigrants equals lower deficit and debt.

"studies typically find that the fiscal impacts of migration represent less than 1% of GDP"

Is what the report says. I'm happy to give up that 1% because this isn't a fair assessment. What about land use, water use, electricity use, the list goes on and on. We are at a max level of it all. Bringing in more people without planned infrastructure is madness.

Water crisis:

"But with climate change and population growth, the demand for water is ever increasing. Many areas of England are already experiencing water shortages. In parts of Sussex, Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, and Norfolk, additional demands on water supply from businesses, and new housing developments, are putting huge pressure on water resources. "

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2024/03/21/meeting-our-water-needs-for-the-next-25-years/

Thames Water is bust.

Housing crisis:

https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/key-homelessness-policy-areas/housing/housing-supply/

Electricity crisis:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/10/capacity-crunch-on-national-grid-is-delaying-new-homes-in-uk-by-years

For the record I'm not racist!!!

But I'm genuniely worried how we house millions of extra people.

Food security crisis:

https://www.sustainweb.org/news/dec24-defra-uk-food-security-report/

For 1% extra we have constant pressure on our infrastructure.

What's the point? We must surely call a halt somewhere?

Your taxes are lower because immigrants are providing cheaper social care and building costs which means more homes at cheaper cost. They are higher because there are a far greater proportion of elderly people in the UK and we have to spend on their healthcare and pensions. If you are angry at high taxes, get angry at the old and sick and feeble not immigrants who only make NHS cheaper for the taxpayer. Also because of Brexit, there are more Asian immigrants who are unlikely to return to their place of birth. In the case of European immigrants, they would have far more likely to retire to their place of birth! Brexit likely increased UK population and immigration from places far away. So bit puzzled why those who were anti immigration voted for it!!! Absolutely all economic models more immigration equals lower debt and deficit because immigrants tend to be younger and contribute taxes. In fact the article above shows it.

Nature in crisis:

https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/news/nature-cant-wait-solutions

The list goes on and on. We wreck our beautiful country for 1% additional gains?

It's pointless. WHY?

We must learn to live within our means.

Labour are planning to reduce immigration numbers:

https://www.fsp-law.com/return-of-the-resident-labour-market-test

So @Appleandoranges if immigration is so good, why are Labour consiering re-introducing the RLMT?

"Your taxes are lower because immigrants are providing cheaper social care and building costs which means more homes at cheaper cost."

Nonsense. Homes are not built at a cheaper cost.

Homes have never been so expensive BECAUSE we have no houses left to house people in them.

There are too many people. Can't you see how this cycle is never-ending and self-perpetuates?

@Appleandoranges I don't think you quite understand what unfettered immigration has done.

https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/uk-government-proposes-linking-skills-and-training-sponsoring-migrant-workers

We have failed to invest in our young people. The competition now for any job is overwhelming.

I'm not saying immigration is good! It's inevitable because of aging population and lower birth rate. The proof is there in the data! After Brexit, what happened? Yes lower immigration from EU. But higher immigration from Asia! Why? Because our healthcare needed immigrants especially after covid. And businesses in agriculture and tourism demanded it. Brexit was a very foolish decision for tanyone who was anti immigration as it probably directly caused far higher immigration from Asia.
Higher house prices are predominantly because of a long period of time where interest rates were low and lack of houses built in some areas. Not because immigrants are taking away housing stock! Immigrants' impact on supply is marginal. And they are likely to make houses much cheaper to build. Pensions and health care consume by far the greater proportion of spending not immigrants. It's the elderly and ageing population to blame. Immigrants tend to make public finances better not worse mainly because they are far younger and of working age.