Talking therapy won't solve the mental health crisis

[dreamydell]

There's a mental health cross among children and young people. What's the only solution that's ever suggested? Talking therapy.

This is ridiculously expensive to deliver en masse and there is no evidence that it even works.

Instead of endless calls for more therapy, can we start looking at some real solutions. And don't say banning smartphones/social media. If anyone seriously thought that was the cause of poor mental health then the first line of treatment would be remove a person's phone. This costs nothing so would be a cheap and effective intervention.

I would also agree that I was not remotely qualified to help my DD when she stopped eating and self harming. But I was told time and time again there was no help as her life was not in danger (apparently).

i feel so cross when parents are blamed when a malfunctioning society, inadequate schools and Covid have caused untold harm yet parents not only are blamed “oh you must have helicoptered” and then left to get on with it. Helping my daughter through this - entirely on my own - cost me my job and nearly my own sanity. She is doing well now entirely because of me and some utterly wonderful charity outreach workers.

Is there “ a lot of it about” “many do”where are the figures for this? I’m staggered that as an alleged psychiatrist you aren’t aware that mental health struggles are most definitely not necessarily caused by parent abuse and neglect and there are many other causes with ND playing a big part. ND children are more vulnerable, more likely to be bullied, struggle at school, struggling with sensory issues, struggling with managing emotions have damaging coping habits whilst living in a less mindful world… Anorexia is now linked to ND due to the high numbers of co morbidity and the Maudsley now screens for ND at the start of treatment. All kids are at an increased risk of abuse online and have huge stresses both in education and the wider world. Staggered an apparent psychiatrist doesn’t know all this.

By your suggestion most of CAMHS caseload would be children known to services as it most surely would be recorded and dealt with. Where are the figures for this?

The hoards of parents I see on support forums are bewildered, loving parents willing to do anything to help and understand their children.

I've been looking into this as my DC are both diagnosed with anxiety disorders but don't meet CAMHS threshold. However there doesn't seem to be a team in the area I live. It's frustrating as there are teams across other parts of my county but nothing we can access.

If there isn't an MHST (England only) there might be something run by a charity, CHUMS is one. Camhs is so overstretched but you'd hope they'd be able to signpost.

There is a great book "Helping your child with fears and worries" that might be worth exploring.

Several teens in each year committed suicide at school.

Seriously?? When and where was that?

Op I don't disagree with the mental health crisis side of your post. Where is the evidence (other than your own anecdotal experience, or a vague assertion that you don't know anyone that's come out of CAMHS feeling better) that taking therapy doesn't work?

People are underestimating the ways in which children can be traumatised by the family environment. It's not just obvious, horrendous abuse or neglect.

Neglect can be emotional and quite a subtle thing, in an otherwise loving, normal family. Children can suffer when a parent is depressed themselves, and unable to engage with them. Children suffer when parents withhold approval/affection and are overly hard on them. Etc.

I'm not saying this in a 'blame the parents' way – at all. I'm just saying that the family environment is one of the biggest factors in child mental health.

(I'm a mental health professional.)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned these, but it would be worth looking into the concept of adverse childhood experiences (ACEs). There's a lot of research to suggest that the more ACEs you acquire during childhood, the more likely you are to experience mental and physical ill health during adulthood. And they're not just things like abuse.

I do think social media plays a part. I also think we are increasingly connected, but in a world which eschews collective responsibility and leans increasingly more towards individualism.

We are bringing our children up in a world of climate crisis, of growing fascism, and perhaps it's always been like that - but we've never been able to watch it in real time before in the way we can via technology.

FWIW a close relative of mine worked with CAMHS and they really helped her, but I appreciate experiences vary.

With my DD I allow her to be bored, I centre her feelings but also get her to appreciate that she isn't the only person in the world. We spend a lot of time in nature, and I've made choices which mean we spend a lot of time together. But who can say, once she sees more of the wilder world, if that will be enough?

I think before we think about children's MH we need to solve the massive issue of adult MH. So many people I know are depressed, anxious, or out and out mentally ill. This has a direct impact on children. I am 47 and know 3 adults close to me really struggling with MH, with little to no support. 2 of the 3 have young children. What chance do the kids have?

I have a uni aged dd and a y6 ds. Both under more pressure than I ever was re sats/uni stuff. Dd is always worried about money, friends, sexual assault, her uni flat is damp and cold, she's worried about a career when she graduates. Ds worried about SATS, friendship group drama, that he isn't good at PE.

I also think the tendency for young people to explain any slight difference in personality or general capability as a ND trait contributes to the self diagnosis of other MH issues. Dd has auditory processing disorder and EDS. When you Google either one, you are told they are both linked with anxiety and depression and a load more ND stuff. Dd lists what she thinks she has like a shopping list. I don't think she has any of the other stuff but uses them as a reason not to do stuff. So her room at home is a tip, if I say she's to tidy it she's struggling with ADHD. Same with a recent round of assessments. She didn't start them because she was overwhelmed cos ADHD. Maybe, but probably didn't start them because she was Out Out all over Christmas and first 2 week in January.

Don't know the answers but it seems to be a cycle of self diagnosis followed by increasingly worsening symptoms. Followed by another diagnosis. Not just dd, loads of her mates and family members are the same.

Meanwhile my dsis who is seriously mentally unwell really needs sectioning or at least some rigorous support is on endless waiting lists because the system just can't cope.

And young people are facing an adult workforce who want to wfh all the time. So they too are wfh in new jobs on laptops in their bedrooms, and not meeting peers.

This is the world we are creating for them.

It’s interesting but my kids didn’t hit any of the risks of ACEs and most of the protective. I know so many families similar as regards ACE experiencing similar struggles to us.

Many young people don’t want the stigma of ND and aren’t diagnosing but masking instead .

@L1ghtP0ur I think there are 10 initial ACEs and then there are quite a few wider ones which are more societal than family-oriented: this link from Liverpool CAMHS is quite interesting. They identify things like divisive political and media commentary and socio-political events as also being factors.

Obviously quite a few ACEs can be mitigated by being in a normal, loving family with a decent income, but the wider issues are far harder to protect our children from, and we don't always appreciate the impact they might have on our kids.

My DD watches Newsround at school and will often come home and ask about things she's seen. I'm glad she's being made aware of the world, but she's 6 and I do also wonder whether knowing about Donald Trump, or the LA fires, is actually good for her.

www.liverpoolcamhs.com/aces/what-are-adverse-childhood-experiences/

Yes I think it’s the wider issues that are impacting kids massively now, they are so invasive. I don’t think a loving supportive home is enough anymore. Well it wasn’t for us. I see an increasing number of parents who are great parents a few even with professional knowledge who have children struggling with quite severe MH problems.

Agree with this but I'd also add in poverty. I see a lot of people who are suffering from the effects of poverty told they need mental health support (adults and children). No-one ever seems that fussed about addressing the root cause. Chatting to someone for half an hour every two weeks is probably going to be less helpful than sufficient money to buy food or not having to turn the heating off in winter, I'm guessing.

I also have a friend in constant pain who is on a 2 year-ish wait for an operation that will likely lift her out some of her pain offered CBT. Which is frankly insulting. (she did try it and it wasn't helpful)

I do see a lot of talk about mental health and talking therapy as a way to avoid discussing the root causes of distress and avoid taking accountability for other failures which need addressing.

fixing the country will solve a lot of it.

People have anxiety or depression because they live in a failing country, have no money or hope for the future or can't afford a home or children.

Talking therapy can help with personal trauma, but it doesn't stop existentialist despair or make your rent or bills cheaper.

We have one anxious young adult and two non-anxious ones. They have all been brought up the same way. They are lucky to have had a very stable home life and still love coming home to us.

Unlike our own childhoods, we have been open, loving and honest with them and they tell us almost everything I think. Sometimes too much!

I talk a lot to my anxious child aged 20. She is unable to really explain why she is the way she is. For her she said lockdown played a part. She had too much alone time with online schooling and not enough contact with her friends and too much time to think. she also developed low self-esteem since then and struggles with social media. She says that she wishes the Internet had not been invented. I have also chatted with her about whether she thinks it was anything to do with her childhood or earlier life at home or school that led to this. she would definitely tell me as she is not slow to criticise me in other ways! She said she really can’t think of anything. She loved her school and she felt safe and happy at home.

Peoples brains and minds are complicated things. It is very unlikely that issues will be down to one factor. And of course some people are wired this way genetically too.

I do think there is a constant barrage of information and stimulation these days which is not good for any of us. And of course we cannot get rid of smart phones. They are here to stay. All businesses depend on them.

I am increasingly having to help my elderly parents navigate the digital world. I have no idea how older people without children to help them cope. When you are in your 80s and 90s and you are being asked to do online banking and book online Doctor appt appointments etc the world is very difficult for many of them.

We are having to adapt to a world with the Internet and social media in it. Getting rid of phones is just not going to happen, so it is a pointless suggestion really.

(and why are people separating talking therapies and CBT? Talking therapies covers counselling, CBT etc surely?)

@L1ghtP0ur I think I'd push back on my own use of the word "normal" in my previous reply as normal is completely subjective! I'm so sorry for your experiences, I hope you've moved into calmer waters now.

We’re on an incredibly difficult journey but making progress and moving along with growing pride of the resilience, efforts and love we have all put into said journey. I truly believe we’ll come out the other side stronger however I could rant for England re the dire state of services, lack of resources and the huge amount of ignorance involved with MH and young people.

It's the mainstreaming of therapy language.

Narcissist, toxic, gaslighting, abuse, personality disorders etc etc. It's good in terms of making women more aware of patterns in relationships, but the words get overused for the slightest thing by people who don't really know the definition. Thus, everyone and anything can be toxic or abusive and everyone's a narcissist.

@CapThem In the case of my family member who worked with CAMHS, lockdown had an enormously detrimental impact on them. I think we'll all be unpicking that for a very long time.

It really changed my child. And we are a close loving family without big financial worries etc. I just can’t explain why lockdown affected her so badly.

I drive my children to avoid paying over £80 each month. After dropping them off, I go directly to work. Nothing to do with being terrified.
This entire issue stems from the breakdown of the family unit; screens are merely a distraction. Screens have taken the place of various institutions like libraries, televisions, and gaming devices. They have also supplanted traditional parenting.

@CapThem I think for a lot of people, the fact that the world they knew could be so easily and dramatically destabilised was shattering. Friends gone, routines gone, endless rolling news of international deaths: it was dreadfully hard for adults, never mind kids.