Talking therapy won't solve the mental health crisis

[dreamydell]

There's a mental health cross among children and young people. What's the only solution that's ever suggested? Talking therapy.

This is ridiculously expensive to deliver en masse and there is no evidence that it even works.

Instead of endless calls for more therapy, can we start looking at some real solutions. And don't say banning smartphones/social media. If anyone seriously thought that was the cause of poor mental health then the first line of treatment would be remove a person's phone. This costs nothing so would be a cheap and effective intervention.

There is now online abuse/crimes, bullying. Pressures on young people are also now massive with not much hope for the future- housing, global warming, war…. The modern world is also dreadful for ND people and also NTs but 10 times harder for ND to navigate.

The modern world is also dreadful for ND people and also NTs but 10 times harder for ND to navigate.

Why is it harder? More things can be done online now. It's easier to work from home. You can text instead of having to speak to people face to face. These are all things that ASD people find helpful and weren't available 30 years ago.

what proof do you have that talking therapy doesn't work?
CAMHS don't usually offer talking therapy.
They provide short term interventions like CBT

There is no off button, phones are addictive, there is next to no mindfulness in society. It’s a faster, more crowded, less green,noisier world. Online interaction very hard for many ND people so much so face to face appointments can be common reasonable adjustments. WFH jobs are hard to get and deceasing, you still need to get through the interview process anyway…..

Spot on

I don't want to downplay the influence of social media and screen-based entertainment: I do think it poses significant risks to teens and young adults and needs to be approached as such.

But I do think there's a hint of moral panic about the way people are talking about this and we need to be a bit more rational and pragmatic about it. Every generation has a bogeyman which is identified as the trigger for all deliquency in youth: in my day it was too much TV and "video nasties". My mum went through a phase of banning TV in our household or restricting it to "educational" content and it never worked. In the postwar years it was reefer madness. Going back 100 years it was the novel. There's always something and looking back at these it's now striking how anodyne some of these things seem.

We do need better regulation of social media: there are genuinely frightening things about the way that the content is created and disseminated and the information which is collected. Social media has the potential to do a lot of harm and we do need robust parental oversight and education and enforced downtime. Hard agree with this.

But the reality is that smartphones and social media, in some form, are here to stay. In part because almost all life admin relies on them but also because for better or worse they are embedded into our social life nowawadays.

I don't think shielding children from them in a panicked attempt to recreate an Elysian pre-digital childhood is the solution to this. Partly because they need to learn to navigate them in a healthy way: if resilience is the name of the game that includes being resilient and savvy in the way you negotiate the online world. Partly because the reality is that if we prevent a kid from having access to a smartphone at home they will seek it out elsewhere (as I did when I was banned from watching ITV at home).

But also because if we fixate on the smartphone as being the source of all evil there's a risk we overlook other serious threats to our children's wellbeing.

Social media and smartphones are not the sum total of the problem.

A lot of the points on this list should be recognised by parents and dealt with by parents.

It occurs to me that getting children to be aware of global problems - while laudable - will in itself be a cause of worry and possibly anxiety for many. When I was 15 I was concerned about nuclear war - I was in CND when I was 18. But most of my mates didn’t give a toss. Hardly any of us thought about the environment. Until Band Aid most of us didn’t think about famine in developing countries. There were no food banks in the UK.

Now our young people are bombarded with truly depressing stuff.

As parents we need to instill social responsibility and generosity in our DC - BUT we need to balance that with a lot of positive messages as well. Show your DC beautiful countryside, interesting places in your town or city, talk about brilliant ideas/work of people.

We need to teach them to budget, cook and clean, and pull them up on unpleasant behaviour. They need to leave home able to stand on their two feet and behave decently towards others. Crucially they need to recognise exploitative behaviour in others and stay away from drugs and dangerous people.

Many parents place far too much emphasis on academic grades. Any university lecturer will tell you that students with solid, if not spectacular, grades can outperform better qualified peers who lack resilience, self discipline and an ability to actually get on with people.

Pathologising the usual ups and downs of life certainly hasn't helped, that generation have not been prepared how to deal with them.

I agree with this. I think there's a very fine line between "supporting with children's mental health" and pathologising anxiety and normal difficulties.

Universities being forced to give every student who claims they have a mental health issue reasonable adjustments to make studying easier. Because a coroner made this suggestion , universities will give adjustments without the need for evidence of a disability now. So students who feel slightly anxious sitting an exam will say they have an anxiety disorder and apply to do an essay instead. We have turned normal feelings in to disorders out of fear to say no and be accused of discrimination. These poor young people will find a workplace a nightmare when they have deadlines that can’t be extended and you have to go in most days . Every part of our society, all levels of education are failing young people.

@L1ghtP0ur if you re-read what I said, I said that I think that with most students where there is some sort of mental health diagnosis, the way they are parented contributes towards this. In a variety of ways as I explained.
This is obviously a small proportion of students, and those who experience generalised anxiety, ND etc might come from lovely supportive families. I have decades of experience dealing with young people and I have dealt with a small number of parents who I would describe as very unkind - do you dispute that this would be the case in a sample of many hundreds of parents?
There are an enormous number of threads on Mumsnet where people talk about how childhood traumas from the way they have been parented have affected their lifelong mental health. Do you think they are lying?

The thing about the smartphones is not the phones themselves but that people are on them too much so aren't doing many other activities.
They're not socialising, exercising, being active, learning, reading, doing chores, engaging with their family, getting out for fresh air.
It's not just the kids either. The parents are on their phones too and so aren't doing these things for themselves or for their kids.

I fully agree. I think a lot of the problems fall within parents gift to solve. I have two children under 4 and I’ve realised that due to my own guilt of working and having them in childcare I was trying to cram every second of our free time together with ‘stuff’ like trips out when really all they want is my attention at home, doing normal chores and playing and boring family life. There’s nothing wrong with day trips out but I certainly don’t remember them being a frequent occurrence as a child.

likewise with hobbies, my eldest has started swimming lessons (important life skill) and then I want to keep it to one extra hobby eg rainbows or gymnastics so she gets plenty th of downtime.

I spent hours colouring, crafting, daydreaming, reading, making up imaginary worlds, sat upside down on the sofa listening to an audio book all while my dad was at work and my mum pottered around the house doing laundry, cooking, sorting out school bags. I don’t remember being entertained.

and as the generation that didn’t get a smart phone til I was at Uni and had a brick phone from 12, I can see how my own brain has been scrambled from this ‘always on’ connectivity. My attention span is shot to pieces, I constantly feel at unease without it, and I had to deliberately change my own consumption of news because it was leading to depression and existential dread because it felt relentless and unsolvable. If I think of an underdeveloped brain going through all of that it makes me panic for them.

and I think that there’s a judgement from other parents as well, that we collectively now parent in fear and that normal milestones like walking g to the corner shop, or going to the park with some friends or taking the bus or train on our own into town to mooch around the shops are rites of passage that are not happening until children are 14+ when I would have done those from much younger. Doing things that are a bit scary helps build resilience and confidence that you can feel anxiety and worry, and do it anyway. When we remove all these opportunities or constantly remove the barriers, they fail to problem solve and realise they are more capable than they seem. We’re so scared of letting them fail or feel difficulty that we I still a culture of fear and anxiety in them.

we must make them step out the door on their own, pick up the phone to book a doctors appointment, book a train ticket, buy a present for their mum with their own money and go into town on their own. We must drag them along to family gatherings and make them participate in conversation, say no to more TV, and realise that being bored is a good thing. And we must have the confidence to be the parent who says no to a smart phone and social media until their brains are more equipped to deal with it.

im still in the little child phase and I’m being acutely aware of my own role as a parent in these things. The temptation to ‘make it better’ rather than let them sit in their own disappointment. It’s a slippy slope to start sliding down.

So no talking therapy and no attempts to feel better by using the phone less (I personally feel a lot better mentally when I barely use my phone and I know I'm not the only one)

I suppose your solution is to put the kids on valium or something?

I don't really agree.

'Social media and smartphones are here to stay'. Yes, but they don't have to be for children. When we realised smoking was bad for you, we banned children from doing it. The same could be done for social media if the risks outweigh the benefits (which I think they do).

'Moral panic'. I think in many ways people were right that TV has not been a great win for society and even though we accept that most children will watch it, we don't allow unrestricted access. Social media and smartphones are different from novels and old-fashioned tv because they are literally designed to be addictive and are available 24/7. In some ways modern streaming tv is the same and I restrict that for my kids. Even though I watched a lot of tv as a child, it was naturally restricted by the fact that it wasn't available all the time. If you turned the tv on on a Sunday morning, it was antiques roadshow
I also don't agree with it not being desirable to have pre-digital childhood. I think that's exactly what we should aim for: limited screen time and lots of outdoor play until at least age 13 and then a gradual introduction to the internet, with social media not allowed until 16. Yes it's a part of life for adults and often very useful, but kids don't need it. I just don't buy the 'they'll seek it out elsewhere' argument. Sure, they might, but I'm still not going to give them something I think is harming them, just like I wouldn't give them alcohol at 13.

Teaching kids to use smartphones responsibly doesn't have to be done at 9 or 10, it can be done at 14 or 15. I still think it's a hiding to nothing though: smartphones are designed to hook you in. It's a bit like saying you need to teach kids about healthy eating - sure you can do that but in our obesogenic environment 60% of the population is overweight and it's not because they don't know about healthy eating.

@Clanke

I don't disagree with a lot of this: I certainly agree that smartphones are highly addictive and that the "smartphone education" should not be starting at 9 or 10. And that people need to oversee their kids' use of them really robustly. Maybe there is a case for a ban or much stricter oversight.

But it does feel like a bit of a catch-all "down with this sort of thing" approach sometimes. People channel their anxiety and concern about their kids into smartphones without stopping to consider the other factors at play or recognising the nuances in the discussion.

The education system needs massive overhaul. My 5yo nephew has started saying he is really sad and asking if life will always be like this....he is 5!!! Scared of people dying etc which is sort of normal for this age but when mum spoke to school about it they had been teaching them about fundamental religion and beheadings!! 5 year olds!!

My 18/19 years olds have also had fear drummed into them during their school years...fear of war, fear of climate change etc...why so much fear? This is not what the education system should be used for at all.

Also I agree with PP about teaching emotional resilience and how to deal with negative emotions

This is perfect. You should teach parenting classes!

Same for my daughter. We were very lucky, CAMHS really helped our daughter. We also had to remove sharps and meds it was a very scary time but it really did help.

Now when she has a hard time I remind her of the tools she worked with with CAHMS and she uses them

Profit-driven American psychotherapists have been convincing the US public that therapy is just a necessary and normal part of life for a century now, and now gullible Brits who spend too much time reading American stuff online are starting to believe it too.

Environmental factors are important. That goes for both home and school. Many schools don't feel like safe environments - whether it's badly behaved kids (peer pressure against anyone different; bullying and sexual intimidation) or excessively harsh teachers - and being in an unsafe place day-after-day really messes you up.

I was chatting to DH about the difference in music from say the 60s chirpy Beatles songs to things like Eminem.
I could point at Nirvana or Slipknot. Hundreds of songs about MH and misery.
I'm not saying I don't love some of these songs but they have normalised anger and self deprecation, misogyny etc. My GS plays NF Happy a lot and it has a lot of MH awareness in it. Not the same lyrics as say ELO's Mr Blue Sky when Jeff Lynn was fed up of the rain. Smaller families and kids spending a lot of time listening on their own feelings fed up.
Not saying it's everything at all but I think it plays a part.

Ah so the with the kids that have a diagnosis parenting has something to do with it. That’s ridiculous. Parenting does not cause a diagnosis of adhd, ASC, trauma etc.

These things have a higher prevalence for mental health struggles.

CBT is a talking therapy.

We know therapy works well for a lot of people, I see that all the time. The evidence base around it is strong. I don't think anyone has said it's the only answer to the MH crisis, so I am not sure I understand where OP is going with this.

Kids have been going to nursery for years though so it doesn't explain the rise of MH issues in the under 25s