Employers hell bent on working in the office full time

[NewDayNewLife25]

Anyone else currently job searching and noticed the same thing?

I'm utterly miserable in my current role which is unfortunate as I've been there for 4 years and use to love it, but a new manager has changed things. I've always worked from home.

Anyway, I've been applying for jobs, mainly remote/hybrid working but also a few office based roles. I always state in my cover letter what I'm looking for, and my address is on my CV too.

A few employers have contacted me, saying that I'm perfect for the role, have all the experience/skills that's required and that they think I would make a great addition to the team. But as soon as I've asked about the working set up, that's it, done. They won't entertain it and decline my application.

I just think it's a shame. I know that they probably have plenty of applications, but surely it's more important to hire the right person, with the right skills and experience. Not just because that person happens to live near the office. Half the time they can't even explain why they need the person in the office. Is it control?

I'm fed up already!

And what would you then if one of your current staff memember asked for a flexible working from home request ? due to changes in their personal lives ? would you deny it ( which yes I know you can ) or would you work with them in order to retain them ? that person has shown that they are one of the best you had in that job

It depends, on the person, the team, the role, the direction company policy is going in. If that person is one of the best I've ever had, I'd bend over backwards to accommodate them - I'd be a fool not to. Sometimes, actually, WFH/hybrid isn't the answer they necessarily need. It's a conversation, not a diktat.

Your style is coming across as confrontational @NewDayNewLife25.

I think if you are interviewed, it would be reasonable at that point to enquire about flexibility. A discussion may then take place, which would ensure both parties are clear about expectations.

@Onlyonekenobe just to clarify, you would prefer a candidate, who, for whatever reason, is looking for hybrid/remote working, to prep, travel and attend the interview. The interview goes well and you decide to offer them the job but they decline because you can't/won't offer hybrid working. Or the candidate could ask before the interview, to save everyone's time, including your own. I think common sense is lost on some people.

Not all departments though. No work from home for us unless ill etc.

@Swiftie1878 this is why I ask before the interview. If you had read my previous comment you would have seen that 😊

I’ve not come across this. My industry is still completely hybrid.

WTF?

Your opening premise was "Anyway, I've been applying for jobs, mainly remote/hybrid working but also a few office based roles". Of course I'm not talking about the former category, and I'm talking about the latter. Why would you ask if you can work hybrid if the job description says you can work hybrid?

I'm done with this thread. This is like talking to a tween. Free advice: wise up. It's tough out there and frankly your communication and reasoning skills leave a lot to be desired.

@Bluevelvetsofa but isn't that just wasting everyone's time? If the company won't accommodate hybrid working and the candidate won't budge either then what was the point in the interview, seriously?

I think the sun is setting on ‘remote working as a right’. I was working with a group of SME directors yesterday and the general consensus was that remote working impeded the flow and speed of information and ideas compared to sitting in the same space as colleagues working on the same project, and that those pushing to work remotely were seen as less engaged and more likely to slack off. They were also less likely to be seen as an intrinsic ‘part of the team’. They felt that where a job could be done in the office it should be done in the office and that’s reflected in the push to get people back in.

Unfortunately, having the right skills and qualifications isn’t enough. Unless you are very specialist lots of people will have similar skills and qualifications and by showing willingness to work in an office they are showing greater commitment at the outset.

Thanks for the tip @Onlyonekenobe I'll keep that in mind. It's obvious what kind of leader you are from your responses, the type to order someone into work the day after they've suffered a bereavement or been in an accident. All I can say is I'm glad you're not my manager.

It's nothing to do with mental health and well being. My company trots that out as well, but it's nonsense. Miserable commutes, noisy, crowded office environments in a job where you have to concentrate, and more complicated lives don't make people healthy. And few of us depend on the office for a social life.

Taking the piss... maybe? But then it's up to the company to monitor work and make sure it's being done.

It is a shame they do not talk to their own staff, I do not need ideas from colleagues. I spend my time fighting off ideas from colleagues who have ideas that are illegal. They do not understand the regulatory framework.

OP did you post initially because you want mum setters to inform your open mind about what you might not be understanding, or did you just want people to agree with you no matter what they thought?

That’s not my experience at all. Which department are you in?

@Applesonthelawn the outdated opinions are bizzare

I can see why companies don’t want WFH. I’m sure I would get distracted if I WFM compared to working in an office.
The people I know who WFH tend to take the piss slack off quite a lot. I know of one who regularly goes abroad on holiday while apparently working from home!

but they have requested it and from April a new starter can ask for it and from April the person requesting it doesn't need to explain why they are requesting it so a conversation might not work there.

We moved to hybrid and it’s amazing the difference. Can easily see now how more unproductive being in an office can be, they’re noisy, everyone having chats etc. much more productive now with some hybrid. I like to be in the office to see my team a couple of times a week but we all get much more actual work done on the WFH days. If we have deadlines and need to concentrate we end up sitting in the office with noise cancelling headphones on. The long commutes also seem like such a huge waste of time now and combined with office distractions means I work less hours on those days.

I think a lot of the time the insistence that staff are in the office is a cover for poor management skills and old-fashioned attitudes. Any competent manager knows full well what each staff member's output should be and when they've skiving, whether they're in the office or at home. And being in the office is no guarantee against time-wasting, skiving or poor quality work.

It's way easier for companies to just do a blanket 'back in the office' rather than invest in really good managers with tip-top management skills. Plus there's the old-fashioned grudging nature of some senior management and business owners of being suspicious of staff feeling comfortable, and a mentality of 'I'm paying them and if I have to do it, so should they'. Plus you get the loons who live and breathe work and can't comprehend that not everyone (especially those paid way less than they are) focuses their entire life on the office.

I personally hate WFH, I don’t want my workplace to be my home. I found it beyond stressful during Covid that I couldn’t get away from my desk because it was in my house. I am happy for my team to do hybrid working because there are some tasks that they can easily do from home. And they’re not constantly interrupted by people popping in with a ‘quick question’.

A lot of jobs in the industry I’m in can’t be done from home. We’ve found it’s easier for people to be rude to someone who is just a voice on a phone or behind an email. So being present to build relationships is important so hybrid works for my department and my boss. It’s not about presentee-ism.

Do you need the money? - Take the job. Take any job. Do you need to hear how amazing you are ? - if yes, why

This

No, I don’t think it is. If the candidate is interested in the post and the company is interested in the candidate, there’s the opportunity for negotiation.

Interviewing is a two way process and always useful experience, even if it’s not ultimately successful. I didn’t say that either party would or would not budge. What I said was that there might be a discussion to be had around flexibility, for both parties.

There's also loads of example of issues with WFH and many employees taking the mick! Works well for some, not so well for others. But the bottom line is it's up to the employer- so I guess you'll have to just find a job that fits your requirements OR adapt to what their requirements are!

As for moving with the times... I'm sure I read last week in a newspaper that we're the number 1 country for WFH? Is that not the case? If so, surely we are moving AHEAD of the times...?