Employers hell bent on working in the office full time

[NewDayNewLife25]

Anyone else currently job searching and noticed the same thing?

I'm utterly miserable in my current role which is unfortunate as I've been there for 4 years and use to love it, but a new manager has changed things. I've always worked from home.

Anyway, I've been applying for jobs, mainly remote/hybrid working but also a few office based roles. I always state in my cover letter what I'm looking for, and my address is on my CV too.

A few employers have contacted me, saying that I'm perfect for the role, have all the experience/skills that's required and that they think I would make a great addition to the team. But as soon as I've asked about the working set up, that's it, done. They won't entertain it and decline my application.

I just think it's a shame. I know that they probably have plenty of applications, but surely it's more important to hire the right person, with the right skills and experience. Not just because that person happens to live near the office. Half the time they can't even explain why they need the person in the office. Is it control?

I'm fed up already!

JP Morgan has made everybody go back to work. All the people I know there have grumbled but accepted that they need to go with that or lose their jobs. These people are extremely bright, hard-working, well qualified, and obviously a zillion times more wealthy than me! And there are plenty of other people desperate to work there who will take any jobs that come up as a result of this. I think the firm is going to cope 😏

not in our place of work. our new recruits love the fact we have flexible and remote working avaliable depending in their role. most can't afford to live close to our workplace and have to either commute over an hours drive or on the bus for a long time. they have all come from colleges and university's that a good bit of their lecturers have been online ect. they are used to remote learning. we have very good on boarding and training facilities. they are happy with the flexibility it allows them to have lives outside of work. this is the feedback hr are getting

If the ad isn't WFH or hybrid you can't get pissy when they want someone in the office?

@Blushingm who said I was pissy?

Hang on, do you mean you've been applying for remote/hybrid working jobs and then companies who advertised those jobs turn round and say actually they need you in the office? I'm confused.
But anyway, I agree that five days a week in an office job seems largely to be unnecessary for many jobs, and that people (the right people, in the right jobs, managed well) can certainly work as well/better from home.

Oh well, I guess it is all anecdata. The young graduates I know hate working from home every single day of the week. They also don’t like going in and not having their managers there to speak to face-to-face. I find it quite sad.

The graduates I know are all from good universities where there is full face-to-face teaching. Maybe that makes a difference.

And I think there was a lot you can learn by being around other people. Social skills, negotiation, teamwork etc. Speaking entirely on screens is not the same. It is depressing. It is no wonder there is a decline in social skills and people don’t seem to know how to be around each other. You see it on this board all the time.

With wfh full-time, the problem will only get worse. A hybrid model is needed.

And I am not sure the new recruits are being entirely honest with their employer. I am a parent of young grads and my friends are too. We have all noticed the same issue.

Very few people are able to work whilst minding their kids in an office.

Hang on, do you mean you've been applying for remote/hybrid working jobs and then companies who advertised those jobs turn round and say actually they need you in the office? I'm confused.

Happens a lot. Especially when you have an agency invovled.

I have lost count of number of roles I have seen that have "remote" as the headline and then "based in <wherever>" when you dig into the details. If it's remote, who cares where you are based ?

Mind you, I also have known some companies who genuinely do offer WFH, but you have to be at work 9-5. Which does make you wonder quite what they think they are doing.

Oh dear you've shown yourself up now claiming I said something when you can’t even find the quote. A bit like your non existent personalised letter from the recruitment agency. The problem isn’t with your manager the problem is with you. Your current team are probably very relieved that you are remote. Good luck finding that hybrid job because you are going to need it.

I completely agree with you OP and I am really disappointed that so many companies seem to be rolling back wfh / hybrid as it has so many benefits. I could never accept another job with mandatory 5 days in the office

I really don't think it's either sexist or archaic. It just boils down to them wanting the person who is the best for them. If they think they'll get better productivity, on the job training, team spirit, ability to differentiate between workers' skill levels, or whatever else they think the benefits are for the employer, and they can find good people to do it, they will.
There are very few people in the world who stand apart from their peers to such a high degree that that would outweigh the benefits of the above. Even in the unlikely event of identifying the "best" person for the job, they will likely only be indiscernibly better than the next best. I am good at my job, experienced, highly specialised, highly paid, etc.etc but I know there are plenty of people like me out there. So I get with the programme - that's life.

our young graduates can't afford to live near us. it's at least near a grand to rent a room at least. we have flexi time you can start at between half 6 and 10. and finish from 3 to 7. that was even before covid. when I started before covid I was always in earlier to miss traffic often sat on my own waiting for others to come in. my boss was always in meetings so would have to wait for him to be free for 5 mins to show me same as everyone else. we have a team but everyone has dedicated roles so you kinda learned om your own even before covid. it's actually better now with remote and wfh as we have teams can message jump on a quick call and share screens to sorry stuff out etc. all factory was on site before Xmas as it was xams dinner and some of them complained how noisy and busy the place was couldn't hear themselves think and therr wasn't enough desks. social skills are in decline nit solely because if work from home it starts at home when they are babies on tablets and then phones as teenagers with tik tol etc. with work form home on days am in teh office our team makes more of an effort with our graduates- alot more so when I started out working 20 years ago and shoved in a corner filing with no one in the office talking to me or seeing how I was.

I'm quite happy on a hybrid basis, but I can mostly plan my work around whether home or the office is the best place to do it; and I don't have children so no issues with getting distracted at home or having to fit in a school run.

@Porcuporpoise my point is that people take the piss in the office too, it's not just at home. I worked with a woman years ago who went to the toilet multiple times a day and sat there for 15-20 minutes every time. She always took her handbag with her. It was obvious that she was sitting on her phone (we weren't allowed to check our phones, even important messages/calls unless it was during our lunch break and she was caught a few times with her phone under her desk). Of course the manager never said anything to her as how would she prove it, but everyone knew what she was doing.

Thanks lovely @Munnygirl 😘

You know what you’re looking for.
Employers know what they’re looking for.

If you match - hurray!
If you don’t - both move on.

You don’t know the reasons they want staff in the office. Why judge and ridicule?
You do you and let them do them.

If a candidate asked me BEFORE interview what the working conditions re hybrid/remote are, I'd bin their CV. Clear indication that their primary interest is in whether the role works for their life, rather than whether they really want the job.

Which is fine, and many an employer will accommodate that. My priority is to find the best person for the job, of which a major element is prioritising the job (including such things as (1) being a team player (2) helping with juniors (3) making connections with people in the workplace, none of which can be accomplished by a new starter who's only present 20-40-60% of the time), over a person's daily commute or their childcare obligations or their wish to wear comfy pants on a Friday as though they're acting out a day-long TikTok reel.

@Onlyonekenobe wouldn't it annoy you even more if you interviewed someone, offered them the job and they declined because you couldn't or wouldn't offer remote/hybrid working?

I don't see why you would bin someone's CV or assume that they weren't interested in the role just because they asked a simple question. It's very short sighted. And surely you'd prefer them not to waste your time?

There was a brilliant sketch about 20 years ago maybe - Armstrong and Miller teaching Japanese businessmen the culture of 'taking the piss', unknown to them hitherto.

This response tells me everything I'd need to know about your commitment to the job I'm offering.

@Onlyonekenobe how so? By asking a question?

@Onlyonekenobe your response to someone asking a question is strange. I feel very sorry for your team.

Is that the actual company op wants to work for or a recruitment consultant? It sounds like the latter but yes I agree that’s not a personal email.

Look, you have a little knowledge of what I'm offering, I have a little knowledge from your CV of what you're offering.

If, before you've even met me, before we learn more about each other and the job, you tell me you're not fully committed to a job that you haven't asked any other questions about; if your VERY FIRST question is whether you can not be in the office 1 or 2 or 3 days a week, before you even know what the role involves...well, there are other candidates out there who are much more interested in what I have to offer and are very eager to do that job.

"By asking a question?" makes me think you're inexperienced and young, and/or professionally not very astute.

If you don’t understand that your question speaks volumes, then you are being a little naive.

If a job is advertised as office based, the expectation is that the people who apply are happy to work in the office.
Your question indicates that you are already looking at their capacity to move the clear goalposts that were set in the advertisement.
If they wanted to consider hybrid or home working, the advert would have stated that this is negotiable.
Your question tells them they’ve just wasted their time on you, despite being very clear what they were looking for, and, if this is at interview stage, that you have effectively ‘stolen’ an interview slot from someone else who WOULD have been happy being office based.