How the term 'poverty' has changed

[Deeperthantheocean]

Just this really.

Poverty in my grandparents' age was 'be rich, a gangster, work hard or you die'.

This was so true, whole different era and real poverty from their times being born in the 1910s and the aftermath. Sadly my GF died so GM was alone bringing up 2 children and then adopting another as that's what what you did when members of the family were being abused. No benefits, only a council where you to practically beg for help and it was so looked down upon and gossip then was brutal.

So, a little 2 bedroom house, outhouse toilet, coal fire, no electricity. My GM worked all day and night... cleaning, making clothes and took in 2 male lodgers in the downstairs 'parlour', made breakfast and evening meals for them.

The 3 girls shared a double bed, GM got up at 4am every morning to bring in coal and make the fire before everyone else got up to go to work/ school. Then she went to work, physical cleaning work to the rich and snooty. The sad thing is she was she was so intelligent, gifted at creativity and music (she played the church organ with music she learnt from heart voluntarily) and sowed the most beautiful dresses. Also cakes.

Having rambled on a bit because this is deep to my heart hearing the stories, poverty was a case of just being able to survive, eat and have a roof. The DC were incredibly intelligent but had to to go to work aged 15 cand over all their wages for the family fund.

Poverty now has a different criteria, which of course it should as society has progressed. However aibu to compare the claim to poverty now to then? There is help, UC, recognition of SEN with DLa etc.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

Am I right? I wouldn't either as there has been so much to eradicate these hard times but I truly respect the hardship and feel so grateful for what we have now. Xx

Your grandparents background is similar to mine. Irish, extremely poor, a lot of physical labour, lots of kids, outside toilet, etc. I remember hearing stories about it and my dad was incredibly proud of his family. Me too. My own parents were very working class, though not quite in the realms of the previous generation; very clever too. My siblings and I would be considered middle class now. It's strange how times change.

I'm so grateful for the changes that have meant I'm no longer forced to live as my GM did. I have absolutely no issue with anyone on benefits either. It is amazing how things can change in a few generations though, you're absolutely right!

By that I mean access to proper doctors, education. I know benefits aren't great because my dad was on and off them when I was growing up. I know none of it's rose tinted and poverty is still gruelling.

I fancy going and digging through some old diaries now. Thanks, OP. ❤️

Poverty in my grandparents' age was 'be rich, a gangster, work hard or you die'.

Eh??

Yes poverty looks different now thank god. But the principles re the same: struggling to eat, heat and provide the basics in life.

Its very futile to make any societal comparisons with 100 years ago

It's not a race to the bottom.

A little two bedroom house nowadays is a dream for some....

The difference I see is nowadays the essentials are expensive and the so called luxuries in life are cheap.

In the past the essentials were more affordable and people would forgo luxuries if that makes sense.

It's a difference in the support available through the councils/ government.

Also people do let rooms or annexes, but there's so much more noise about safeguarding now if there's children in the home, or if the homeowner is a woman. And subletting is usually forbidden for renters.

With grants available for technology, as every home is expected to have at least WiFi and phones, today's poverty won't look close to yesterday's poverty in the UK.

You seem resentful that poor people now don’t have things as bad. Why? If true is this not a good thing?

FWIW I have think the very poor just have different challenges now. Things are not necessarily better for them.

You ask the families and kids living in poverty if they feel grateful for what they have and see what they respond with.

Who are you to judge whether someone's poverty is enough of a struggle, what an odd post

True, but it was a different world. Even a generation ago, my family left school at 14 and went to work. There was zero knowledge about dyslexia so if they failed there, then there goes an office job. Go a generation further back and illness was a life sentence for some. My Grandad was a coeliac and suffered so badly he had to give up physical labour. So my GM was left working 4 physical jobs and bringing up 7 children, in a slum with rats in the walls and cockroaches everywhere.

I didn't read the post in the way some PP's have done. Poverty is still rife, and it's terrible but it does look different to people who only a generation ago were working in an abetoir at 14 or scrubbing steps for pennies.

Personally, I took it as an interesting observation. It's something I often think about myself. 🤷‍♀️

Why futile to make comparisons?

It’s not cheaper to make clothes these days. And probably cheaper to buy cheap bread than to make it. All the time on here you read about people trying to squeeze space in their flats - parents sleeping in the living room so there’s a room for the kids etc. People often don’t have a “spare room” to rent out as housing is so much more expensive. And people working all hours, long shifts, not able to afford heating. Yes they’ve probably got a telly because they last for ages and can be got v cheaply. They’ve probably got a phone because it’s how so many people run their lives these days. But absolutely there are people struggling to house, heat and eat. It just doesn’t have a nostalgic veil over it.

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

🙄

Housing is the real issue nowadays. Agree that making your own clothes and bread nowadays is not cheaper and it would be an utterly futile task. Not having a mobile phone won't make any difference as to whether you can afford your rent.

The difference I see is nowadays the essentials are expensive and the so called luxuries in life are cheap.

this

What have gangsters got to do with it?

Sorry, but now those claiming poverty now wouldn't consider letting out a room, working all day and night, making clothes and baking just to survive.

I'm not allowed to sub let a room.
I couldn't work 'day and night' due to health issues.
Making clothes isn't cheaper, assuming people even have the skills.
I bake quite often, but it's not actually cheap.

I think it's madness that I'm officially classed as living in poverty. But I am.

I remember when TVs were so expensive you'd rent them. Today my huge TV costs less than a week's worth of groceries for my family of four.

My late dad ( born 1928) used to say that poor children used to watch him eat an apple at playtime and ask him if they could have the core to eat.

Because what happened in the past is no longer relevant. 100 years ago people died from bugs that we’d now spend maybe a day in bed for. The fact we would’ve died 100 years ago isn’t relevant, doesn’t have any bearing on what we do now and should be looked upon with a mere “Glad it’s better now”, nothing more

The bench mark for poverty has changed so much over the last century. I'm a fan of novels/films/dramas set in the Victorian era, and I must admit I am shocked at the level of poverty that existed in those times. Like not having a proper coat to wear in bitterly cold weather,and having to make do with a knitted shawl. Or no decent shoes,the ones they had were falling apart. Having to survive on a few slices of bread and margarine a day. Living in freezing,cramped,tiny apartments,often with 3 or 4 people to one bed. Working 12 hour days as a matter of course,with only one day off a week, and no paid annual holiday. I took early retirement due to ill health and live on benefits so I'm hardly wealthy. But OMFG compared to the life so many Victorians had to endure,I feel positively rich. I just count my lucky stars I was born in 1963 and not 1863.

Yes, absolutely on luxuries vs essentials.

At the same time public perception of what constitutes a luxury has not kept up with reality.

So you still get people claiming someone’s living in luxury because they have a smartphone, or they buy new clothes fairly often.

But in fact a smartphone is a necessity and has been for years. And if all you can afford is Primark or Shein clothes, replacing them often is also a necessity as they tend to fall apart.

See also Netflix or other subscription services; “wide-screen” TVs (that’s almost all TVs now!) etc.

Also the moaning around “people wouldnt let out a room these days” - how many times did people let our rooms to creeps weirdos and people who’d prey on and abuse their children? Let’s not be dicks and say people in poverty should compromise safeguarding of children

I also don’t think “Well 100 years ago you would’ve been dead in a poor house” is in ANY way useful to those experiencing poverty. Doesn’t make them richer or happier or their belly fuller. It’s hatred a other way to stick the boot in

No you're not right.

Some people are still hungry and malnourished. Unable to sleep due to the cold. Some don't have a roof over their heads, living on the streets. Desperate.

Bugger all to do with gangsters.

The person who said it’s cheaper to buy bread than make it I disagree. It’s a false economy. Shop bought bread is mostly air but if you make it yourself you can get a nice thick loaf that’s filling

This is also a valid point. When my DC were small I wouldn't have felt comfortable renting a room to a stranger. (If I were allowed). Now that they are older teens I think a woman would be fully justified in not wanting to move into a house with 2 young men in. And I wouldn't want a random man here who I would be alone with if DC go out.