Friend earns as much as me on benefits

[NattyFinch]

I felt really shocked and conflicted after a discussion with a friend recently that revealed that she receives over £2000 a month on benefits for 2 children while I work full time as a single parent with one child for a similar amount (once I’ve paid all my taxes, ni etc). It stemmed from her saying she was going for ivf treatment at 48 at a total cost of £8000. I’m supportive as a friend and try not to be a judgmental person but this just seems unjust when I’ve worked so hard to stay in employment and raise my son single-handedly for 12 years. She doesn’t want to move to England because if the ivf is successful she will get more money to stay in Scotland. AIBU to think this is all bonkers ?!

It could very easily be £2k. Single element over 25 plus 2 kids born after 2017 is £986 alone. Add rent then any additional elements for childcare/disability etc and it could very well be over £2k.

@Vertigo2851 Yeah exactly!

Don’t get me started! My SIL has 3 children to 2 different fathers. Claims almost £6000 because each child has ‘some sort of additional need’ - they really don’t! I don’t make half of that, nor do DH and myself make that combined! She complains about her 3 bedroom house and is entitled to a 4 bed house, according to her. Belittled me for ‘only spending £150ish on my DC at Christmas because she had spent £2500 on one child alone! Never worked a single day in her life.

Maybe a little bitter but I can’t wait until the kids are older and she gets next to nothing!

I think it’s about time we stop and give out naff all to those who play the system. They should be house in a hotel like structure with a studio apartment with bunk beds and necessities. A canteen to cater for them. No need to give them any money whatsoever. Why should people who don’t work be able to afford multiple holiday, £1000’s on Christmas pressies, new cars, etc! They might actually be inclined to get off their lazy arse and do something. And not just reproduce for the money!

This way people who genuinely need help because they are going through a rough patch; in between jobs, unforeseen medical conditions/sickness, etc, can actually get the help they need.

Rant over!

Nope. It is broken Britain where someone that makes the effort to work and contributes ends up after tax with less than someone on benefits who pays no tax. It is not right, those that struggle to work and keep a family together should always be better off than similar set up but on benefits. Else we may as well all stop at home and stuff society that needs tax payers to pay for services.

Lots of people claiming this isn't possible etc. I had a recent conversation with a friend as she was ranting about money and COL.

She does admittedly work part time, but gets UC top up and all in her take home is just over 2600 per month. She owns her house, so whilst she pays her mortgage out of that, she is investing in her and her children's future.
She also only pays 20% nursery fees for her 2 DC and pays less than 100 for both children to go 2 days per week, whilst I pay over 600 a month for 2.5 days for one child and her father has her the other days as I work full time.

It's BONKERS. I also don't pay into a pension as I simply can't afford to until nursery fees ease up.

Another acquaintance has 4 children, is a single parent and her net income is 3200, no disabilities. plus child maintenace of over 800 per month from the 2 dads. Not worked since she had her first 8 years ago. She has a new car on finance and private rents a very nice house in a very nice area, gets her hair done regularly and the children are always in new clothes etc.
I rent a tiny 2 bed in an okish area because it's all I can afford.
People seem to think you only get a few hundred a month on UC but that's simply not the case, and it's all the other "free" things that add up, prescriptions, dental care, eye tests, nursery, breakfast clubs etc.
It's a frustrating place to be.

It absolutely could be if rent is highish?

There is an issue with benefits that a parent with a couple of kids, can receive more in benefit income, especially working part time, than someone else working full time. It can feel like people are compensated for choosing to work fewer hours.

So what if the benefit income include rent? Someone on a wage also has to pay rent out of their income too.

Because children shouldn't live in poverty, it's not a race to the bottom , a decent society raises the standard for everyone". etc etc.

At some point either the unemployed get to live at a basic standard, which will also be the same as low paid working people or they will get less and live below the basic standard.
If you raise the salary of the lowest that shortly becomes the new lowest standard doesn't it.

@NattyFinch OP just know that I and many more, have respect for you but will never respect your lazy, good for nothing friend, who lives on benefits!

Whilst I understand your frustration you can progress with your career, go for promotions, better paid jobs as you gain experience, build up a pension.

Benefits mean you’re stuck with no hope of more, and getting off them can be nigh on impossible. You’re literally trapped. It might seem like free money and therefore unfair, but in reality you have far more freedom and potential than she does.

As for having another baby at 48? Bonkers!

Your child will be proud of you just remember that. You’re setting an amazing example unlike her.

Whilst I understand your frustration you can progress with your career, go for promotions, better paid jobs as you gain experience, build up a pension.

Another issue - many jobs no longer offer this progression potential. You can be offered a "promotion" and find it pays little more - after tax it is barely noticeable.

This! I also have one friend who is getting brnefits for being a single parent with 2 kids. Except her partner lives with her and he works but it's not declared. She works part time and says she will never work more because then the benefits will go down.

No it's people making out that life on benefits is cushy when it's not! Sure there may be some people who milk and cheat the system, but that is the exception and not the rule!

So how much do you earn? You must earn more than your friend otherwise presumably you'd also qualify for benefits?

Also for people saying it couldn't possibly be £2k on UC (which it absolutely could be) the OP just said in benefits if I'm not mistaken. So that includes child benefit of £170 every 4 weeks and then she'll also be receiving an extra £27 or so per week per child for Scottish Child Payment which is £215 every 4 weeks. So that's around £1600 of UC which means her rent wouldn't be much over £600 which isn't sky high.

Think she said the kids don't have any disabilities. Plus she's unemployed so no childcare. Plus lives in Scotland so rent won't be that high.

It's probably worth noting that this is the OPs first post on Mumsnet.

These threads are always full of people moaning about those friends of theirs who get loads of benefits but never disclose how much they earn.

It's very simple. If your household income is under a certain amount, and you have dependents, or rent, or disabilities, or your children have disabilities.... etc, then you may be entitled. I've yet to see a like for like comparison of income and circumstances where the person on benefits is genuinely better off.

How do you KNOW though? I have a disabled child - he's autistic and we get a substantial DLA every month. Nobody knows we get this, and hardly any of our friends even know he's autistic (just think he's a bit quirky). They don't see the tough stuff, just easy playdates (which we carefully engineer to ensure he can cope, or whisk him away at the first sign of not coping). No doubt all my friends would laugh and say 'of course he's not disabled' if anyone even suggested that we received disability benefits.

I was in this position years ago when DS was small - lone parent, had a friend who was a lone parent who had more disposable income than me ie after rent.

I was lucky that I was paying off a mortgage rather than rent, but it does feel unfair. As others have said, working is good for you, good for your kids, you have opportunities to develop your career, increase earnings etc, and I've done these.

But, when you're getting up at 7am to put a wash on, and make lunches and get the kids to school before going to work yourself, and a friend hasn't got these pressuers and has the same - or higher - standard of living without any of the work it can be galling.

It's not necessarily knocking benefit claimants to point out that there can be disincentives to working.

There are many properties in Scotland over £1k a month in rent. It isn't some super cheap country 🤣 But if you have a look at my last post I also realised it could include child benefit and scottish child payment which would be almost £400 every 4 weeks so the friends total UC could be around £1600 which means rent isn't that high.

I can believe it, although as others have said not sure how she is not having to work some hours. Also, if she is not successful with her IVF, then at some point her benefits will be greatly reduced when her children turn 18. You see posts on mumsnet where parents have to move etc once their children turn 18 and their benefits are greatly reduced.
I have a friend who has just taken a f/t job and is actually worse off because of the reduction in benefits, having to pay additional travel costs, loss of bursaries and free dental/NHS prescriptions etc. She is thinking of the long term picture and knows that eventually she’ll be better off.

If you had the same circumstances as your friend who gets £2k in benefits, you too would receive some (a not insignificant sum) benefits even if you had £2k in earnings.

You realise rent is capped depending on the average in the local area? So even if you can find some places that are 1k that doesn't mean welfare will pay for all of it?