When do seasons start? Celtic Calendar vs Meteorological

[EarthSight]

I have been walking to work and hiking for almost 20 years now, and over time, my perception of when each season starts has changed, based on my observations of nature. For me, here is the seasonal calendar roughly -

Spring - February, March, April
Summer - May, June, July
Autumn - August, September, October
Winter - November, December January.

I've since learnt that this is in line with the old Celtic calendar. My views on the seasons changed after I saw how trees started to flag and the leaves lost their lustre as early as August in some cases, and often there was already an autumnal feel by the end of that month. However, for a long time,I saw August as very much summer due to the school holiday calendar.

Recently, spring feels like it's in the air and now I've learnt that the start of spring was traditionally celebrated on the 1st of February (Imbolc or Feast of St Brigid).

I've always felt that May felt quite summery. We often have better weather here in Wales in May & June (like we did this year too), rather than July or August. Perhaps it's unsurprising given that in Welsh, July literally translates to 'End of Summer'.

Does the Celtic calendar makes sense where you live in the U.K?

No - YABU
Yes - YANBU

The only true answer is the scientific definition of the astronomical seasons defined by the solstices and equinoxes. Anything else is simply personal preference.

Well, that's what the pagan calendar is. The seasons commence at the mid point between the solstice and equinox

No need to feel sad. I may view the seasons according to temperature, but I'm a big lover of nature, plants, trees, fungi, birds. Your sadness for people who go by temperature isn't necessarily warranted.

Like this?
So, in the Northern Hemisphere you have: Vernal equinox(about March 21): day and night of equal length, marking the start of spring. Summer solstice (June 20 or 21): longest day of the year, marking the start of summer. Autumnal equinox(about September 23): day and night of equal length, marking the start of autumn.

I don't really understand the argument for departing from the meteorological seasons. It seems a simple and sensible concept (the 3 hottest months are Summer, the 3 coldest are Winter, and Spring and Autumn cover the intermediate periods). This grouping is consistent with actual temperatures in the UK.

What's the reason to depart from that? Unless I'm missing something, it just sounds like personal perception of "vibes"?

Isn't it a bit like arguing that Saturday should start at 5pm on Friday because it feels like the weekend?

I was thinking about this thread today whilst I was out for a walk. There are definite signs of Spring here - flowers blooming and much more birdsong. I could hear lambs in our neighbours barn, though they're not in the fields yet, and there's a change in the smell of the air and the quality of the light. I don't think it is Spring yet though, it's just toying with us! Once the days are long enough for my chickens to start laying again it feels like proper Spring to me. It won't be long now.

My old driving instructor, who was a keen gardener, told me that there is a six week difference in flowering times between Cork where I am I'm the far south of Ireland, and Inverness. I have no idea if that's true.

DP was muttering to himself about 'can tell bloody Spring's starting' on Sunday - because I woke up early and decided it was absolutely essential to start cleaning as soon as he'd put the bird food in the feeders.

He was hoping that if he made enough cups of tea, I'd sit down until the urge passed again, but it's not going anywhere right now.

I've heard the foxes for the first time since they hunkered down for cubs to be born, the Cat's being a dick with pouncing and running around instead of sleeping and eating and within the next fortnight, the birds will really be kicking off.

So yeah, I think it's more than an arbitrary 'Spring cannot happen until this date'. Nature doesn't understand the concept, it just is.

Actually, to argue with myself, Astronomical seasons probably make most technical sense, though Meteorological are easiest for every day usage.

I agree, OP. It was sunny today here, birds tweeting madly, green shoots everywhere. It ain't winter.

I think it depends where you live, I'm in north wales and I think spring starts 3rd week Feb here until late May, then it's summer. Late August can definitely feel autumnal too

Ah, I've had 1 laying throughout the winter (or 2 identical ones taking turns - but only 1 egg a day).

Yesterday I had 2 eggs, and definitely from different birds rather than not having collected the day before as 1 was the usually daily brown egg and the other was a white egg from my 3rd hen who hasn't laid for months and months.

Got a lovely picture of the 2 eggs, but no picture sharing atm.

My Facebook feed shows that late Jan / early Feb is standard for my hens to pick up their laying - as the days start to lengthen a bit more.

I go with the same calendar except I use the Irish names for the festivals

Imbolc - start of February
Bealtaine - Start of May
Lughnasadh - Start of August
Samhain - end of October

Like July in Welsh, the names of the months in Irish tell us about the calendar. September (Mean Fómhair) and October (Deireadh Fómhair) mean middle of autumn and end of autumn respectively.

What language are the names you use from?

Northern hemisphere solstice for me. So
Spring March 20 Summer June 20, Autumn September 22 and Winter December 21, 2025. My husband follows the metrological system so we are always about 3 weeks apart. It's not what the weather is doing for me, u can have fabulous summery days in May, its still Spring though.

No. Vernal equinox marking the mid point of spring and so on. If you accept that the shortest day of the year is mid winter, the rest flows from that.

the seasons roughly correspond to nature, spring the sowing/ planting first shoots, summer growing and ripening autumn harvesting winter hibernation. Now the length of the seasons and when they start in terms of how nature works also depends on latitude the further North you go the longer the winter it starts earlier and ends later, the growing season is shorter the harvest later this is why some crops do not grow further north as the season is too short or not warm enough for long enough. Some is compensated for by the short growing season having more hours of daylight. for animals and birds the overall breeding season is shorter and the second set of babybirds are much less likely to make it.
so in the North like the cairngorms winter can be 4-5 months long ( the snow season is roughly mid november to beginning of April with skiing occasionally possible until May), spring just 2 months then summer 2-3 months and autumn similar. but in places much further south winter maybe much shorter just 6-8 weeks when it's chilly oranges ripen in Southern spain in February
my mother in the midlands is normally picking blackberries by mid august, here it is more like mid september

I'm not sure - just the names I was brought up with

If I may chime in, they are in English

Lammas is a Christian name and festival, (loaf mass)

Beltane is an anglocised spelling of Bealtaine

That's interesting. I wonder why she uses a different name for lughnasadh but uses the Irish names for the others, although with one of the names anglicised.

I assume that Lammas, like St bridgits day and All Hallows has been appropriated from pagan traditions?

I've lived in the same place for circa 40 years, and from my recollections and observations of our garden and the nearby countryside, I don't think the seasons fit neatly in with the names of the months round here. So this is it, or thereabouts.

Spring - 2nd week of February to 2nd week of May
Summer - 3rd week of May - 2nd/3rd week of August
Autumn - 3rd/4th week of August - 2nd week of November
Winter - 3rd week of November - 1st week of February

For me, autumn starts to come in around the time the leaves on horse chestnut trees begin to change colour, and that varies year by year.

They are taken from the same/similar tradition. A lot of ancient connections in England are lost in time so modern pagans tend to look to the nearest/strongest celtic sources. I know it's not a popular view but much of England's ancient/pre-Christian traditions are from a celtic culture too.

Lammas is essentially the same as Lughnasadh in that it marks the harvest season so yes it's likely to be appropriated from older traditions.

At the end of the day the traditions don't much change regardless of predominant culture, except perhaps the names.

For me Winter is Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb
Spring is March and April
Summer is May, June, July and August
Autumn - Sept/Oct.

I go by the equinox / solstice dates

So:

20th march Spring starts this year
June 21st Summer starts
September 22nd Autumn returns
December 21st winter begins and lasts until 20 something march 2026.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/equinox-and-solstice

@OchonAgusOchonOh not sure if it's relevant but your Irish spellings are very similar to the Manx Gaelic we have here. So interesting to see.

Can I ask if you weave special reeds to make a sort of cross ready for the evening of Imbolc

Yes, we make a brigit's cross from reeds. The cross has been commonly woven here for centuries as it was appropriated by the christians and attributed to St Brigit, who was based on the goddess brigit. There are a variety of designs that would be particular to different areas.

Is Manx Gaelic one of the Celtic languages with vowels? I can't remember what you call the different families but the Welsh and Breton ones got all the consonants and the Irish and Scottish ones got all the vowels. I've never seen/heard Manx but Scottish and Irish are very similar so presumably Manx is related too if the names of the the festivals are similar.