When do seasons start? Celtic Calendar vs Meteorological

[EarthSight]

I have been walking to work and hiking for almost 20 years now, and over time, my perception of when each season starts has changed, based on my observations of nature. For me, here is the seasonal calendar roughly -

Spring - February, March, April
Summer - May, June, July
Autumn - August, September, October
Winter - November, December January.

I've since learnt that this is in line with the old Celtic calendar. My views on the seasons changed after I saw how trees started to flag and the leaves lost their lustre as early as August in some cases, and often there was already an autumnal feel by the end of that month. However, for a long time,I saw August as very much summer due to the school holiday calendar.

Recently, spring feels like it's in the air and now I've learnt that the start of spring was traditionally celebrated on the 1st of February (Imbolc or Feast of St Brigid).

I've always felt that May felt quite summery. We often have better weather here in Wales in May & June (like we did this year too), rather than July or August. Perhaps it's unsurprising given that in Welsh, July literally translates to 'End of Summer'.

Does the Celtic calendar makes sense where you live in the U.K?

No - YABU
Yes - YANBU

But August is the start of Harvest! You only need to look at the fruit trees to see it's different from June and July :) It's too late to Harvest in November, you need to have stored all your harvest by then - because it's now Winter!

Yes, it's a continuum, with variations every year and also some plants and animals operating on the basis of day length whereas others are more sensitive to temperature.

But it can be so hot, I can’t get my head around it being autumn!

Because seasons aren't about temperature, they're about changes in the behaviour of nature.

For me, anyway.

Very interesting discussion!

I think of it as
Dec, Jan, Feb - Winter
March, April, May - Spring
June, July, Aug - Summer
Sept, October, Nov - Autumn

Someone once said that the weather always changes on the Feast of the Assumption (15th Aug) and I feel like that's generally true. There's an autumnal light in the second half of August and the nights seem to rapidly get longer.

Spring: sometimes April, May.
Summer: June, July.
Autumn: August, Sept, October.
Winter: Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March. Sometimes April.

I really hate spring, mainly because I am confused about why people are pretending it's not Winter.

Me too, and I agree with you. I was just coming on to say about Gorffennaf! (July- the end of summer) It is cold here now, and dark, but something has definitely changed in the air- the sun has a slight bit of warmth again.

Oops sorry, I think I've managed to archive it, hopefully this link will work:

https://archive.ph/OkcQQ

Fabulous, thank you!

This makes so much sense to me! I agree with you OP, it definitely feels spring like right now, the birds are tweeting differently and signs of spring like snowdrops are appearing.

Makes sense but I am in Scotland. School here goes back after the summer around mid-August so mentally that is the start of autumn to me. I would define as

Spring - mid-Feb to mid-May
Summer - mid-May to mid-August
Autumn - mid-August to mid-Nov
Winter - mid-Nov to mid-Feb

People who say winter doesn't start to 21st December have clearly never experienced a cold, dreich November day in Glasgow.

Yes exactly - the very beginning of a season is subtle, not obvious.

Right now it's like when you wake up in the morning. Your eyes might still be closed but you're awake and becoming aware of things. That's mother nature right now :)

I go by the Celtic/pagan calendar, I acknowledge season changes by the behaviour of nature rather than meteorological. Aligns with how things are here in West Wales, where the temperature and weather change hourly or stay the same all year!

It all depends on where you live. As others have said, spring in southern England arrives much earlier than in northern Scotland.

A good example of this is in the names of plants and flowers. Daffodils, which are often in bloom in southern England by the end of February, are called "Påskelilje" (literally "Easter Lilies") in Denmark, and similarly in Germany, where they are "Osterglocke" which reflects the fact that they bloom in these countries around Easter (Påske/Ostern)

It's Spring now since St Brigids Day was last week. Never feels like it of course. In solar terms it has to be : midwinter was December 21st so therefore winter was halfway over by then. TV presenters often use St David's Day , March 1st for the beginning of spring. And even the vernal equinox around 22nd March? But the sun ☀ won't be budged from its course.

I go by the Equinox and Solstices so (roughly):

21st March to 21st June: Spring
21st June to 21st Sept: Summer
21st Sept to 21st Dec: Autumn
21st Dec to 21st March: Winter

These dates seem to line up well with the UK weather, especially here in Sussex.

I noticed this morning that the birds weee chirping more.

August does have an autumnal tinge to it where I am in the south. It can be warm but the leaves start to turn from the middle of the month. And the green is more subdued. And the nights are longer.

We are sheep farmers & horse owners.

Winter is November, December, January, February and usually March too.

Spring is April & may

Summer is June, July, August

Autumn is September & October

In all seriousness though I think the pagan festivals got it right. Winter between solstice (21st dec) to Imbolc (2nd Feb). There does seem to be a shift around now when you notice the extra daylight & signs of spring.

I go with astronomical seasons. So Winter began on the Solstice and Spring will begin at the Equinox. I'm in Scotland and February is definitely Winter.

People who say winter doesn't start to 21st December have clearly never experienced a cold, dreich November day in Glasgow.

Or many other places in the U.K.
It's the shortest day, of course winter has begun before we get to it.

I can see why people would think of November as Autumn, as the leaves are on the trees until at least mid-November here.

I can see why people would think of November as Autumn, as the leaves are on the trees until at least mid-November here.

Yes - first half of November is still autumn, it's winter by the end.

@orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements I was into paganism as a teenager, but even though I was aware of Imbolc, I didn't know how tidily the Celtic year would tie in with my observations of nature until I was older. Like I knew Lammas was a harvest festival as well, but I don't think I knew that it was probably considered the end of summer at that point too which is why July is called 'Gorffennaf' (Gorffen Haf - Summer End) in Welsh. Even native Welsh speakers like me have forgotten the significance of this word over time.

And yes, it lines up better with solstices too. It's called MID-summer solstice for a reason. To be more accurate, a season roughly starts 1.5 months before a solstice, and roughly 1.5s months after it ends. I think what our ancestors did was push the celebratory date right to the beginning of February, May and August.

Yes, it won't be the same over the U.K and it can vary a bit from year to year too. Also agree that our observations don't have to slot into 3 neat months and that winter in some places will be longer. @Cottagecheeseisnotcheese