To be concerned about what Liz Kendall is up to with disability benefits?

[Locutus2000]

The Times reporting just how enthusiastic Labour are about targeting the disabled.

I can only hope they are getting the worst ideas out there first, if not I dread to think what is coming in the upcoming review.

I was confident Labour would at worst be no worse than the Tories.

I was wrong.

Free archive link here.

Yep. I think there should be higher penalties for recruitment policies that put the disabled at a disadvantage.

I don't think other countries have such a huge percentage of the population on disability benefits of some kind. Maybe this needs to be addressed.

The country isn't remotely bankrupt. It's a matter of what we do with the money there is.

It's a little unclear, depending on the source.

Edit: Comparison is against comparable economies. Most developing countries have little or no welfare state.

Preview fail.

The country isn't bankrupt. That's being dramatic.

I would suggest rolling back part of the NI increase on employers, on the condition that employers do their bit. When more disabled and ill people work and pay taxes, some of that money comes back because it is not being spent on benefits.

As for NHS funding and reform - not doing this means not investing in the economy, this country and its people. I know you are a staunch right winger, but you'd have to be blind not to see the damage done by the previous government. It is going to cost to put this right. And again, when people's health improves and they are able to work, money comes into the tax coffers. I'm not at all opposed to challenging some of the things that go on in the NHS, by the way. I work in it, I see how many things could be done leaner and better. Let's do those things. But let's not kid ourselves that at the very least a redirection of funding is very badly needed, and that some of that redirection needs to involve ND people, people with mental ill health and people with Long Covid.

The alternative that the benefit bashers on here want - punitive approaches, taking more money away from people - is going to leave an increased number of people desperate and destitute. A number of them will turn to crime. Keeping people in prison costs the taxpayer a fortune, and we are already short of prison places.

Our benefits bill is unsustainable madness.

Importing millions of people from third world countries to add to it us unsustainable madness.

Something has to give. The more we can get our own people into work the less we have to keep importing people.

Does anyone think these cuts are genuinely going to happen or is it just scaremongering/reform voter pandering? Most people use their pip/uc health element to pay rent and essentials as universal credit isn't enough to cover those things.
I'm quite scared I'll be honest. I have lifelong poor MH and I have never worked full time, I've always burned out when I tried. I work 3 days a week now and I can just manage. I don't claim any benefits, I just live frugally. I don't want the hassle of benefits if I can help it (plus I'm lucky to have a small amount of savings to tide me over). I sometimes think the reason I manage to work at all is the reassurance that a safety net is there if I need it. (And I have needed it in the past)
I read the other day that they want to scrap LCWRA payments entirely and exclude people with mental illness from claiming pip. How is this not discrimination? I'm barely managing in my job currently and starting to wonder whether I should claim pip in the near future while I can before it all changes. I don't know. I'm just scared for the future. I've tried numerous medications that have made me worse, and going to the gp is a horrible experience, all they can offer is counselling which I've had plenty of already.

The link was really insightful. I as a disabled person could probably access quite a bit on there that I don't.

I am however very grateful it's there.

Not everyone is after a quick buck. I believe so many people want to work but there are barriers to that a plenty.

But why just take from disabled people? What's about the way child benefit is done? It should be done on household income.

Erm it is… we also need children too, as tax payers for the future. It’s the eye for an eye from the left which make you all go blind now. I don’t claim CHB however, people are having less children - which is leading to issues funding our aging demographic. Yet the sick are rising. One benefit is dropping, the other is rising at unsustainable rates.

I didn't mention disabled people but the whole system is broken in this country and nobody seems to be able to do anything about it. The problem is the wrong people tend to get targeted, it'll be people who are genuinely ill and disabled, while the piss taking layabouts play the system like a fiddle.

It's only the tip of the iceberg though. My friend works in a primary school and half the kids don't even speak English. It's not exactly uncommon either so what happens when they leave school?

They are not on ESA they are on Universal credit because the only type of ESA that still exists is contribution based ESA which you can only claim if you have worked and paid NI contributions. Many of these young people have never worked.

Also, the graphs are for a drop of the estimated migration to the UK.

Not for people who have left the UK.

You actually don't know what your own evidence is showing there.

The more we can get our own people into work the less we have to keep importing people.

That’s all very well, but 1) the vacancies have to exist and 2) the role needs to be compatible with the person’s disabilities and the employer needs to be prepared to offer reasonable adjustments

In my opinion these two factors are the biggest barriers when it comes to returning to work. They certainly are in my case and for others I know. The last two jobs I applied for were pulled due to funding issues. People I know without disabilities are struggling to find alternative employment.

As an aside, my NHS physio friend has become ill from the stress of his workload since staff were let go and his trust have frozen recruitment. He is now in a position where he feels he will have to turn to private practice because he can’t go on the way things are. In which case the NHS will lose another AHP who won’t be replaced, and countless patients in need of physical rehabilitation, many of whom will rely on it to get back into work, will be forced to wait longer and/or be provided with an inadequate service.

I'm reading an article from the LSE ( 2024). My knowledge of economics is limited yet it's clear to most that inequality is soaring.

Surely there's a viable way of addressing this. I don't mean the generally high earners just meeting the high tax thresholds, I mean those above that.

There's no way that the disabled are the primary source of all our woe.

@Tittat50 can you say how you'd get this?

Take Reeves u turn on nom Doms for example

What do you do that works rather than just gets overturned later as it did with this policy

There is talk about reforming the LCWRA element of Universal credit and people only getting it if they are in receipt of PIP, so basically only the most severely ill and disabled. Currently over 2/3 of people assessed for work capability are awarded LCWRA. It comes with significant extra money and no requirements to look for work at all and they are years behind with re-assessing people so people just get stuck on it for years. People often are able to return to work and they still carry on getting the extra £400 a month and their earnings and there's no capacity to re-assess them s so many people are getting it.
In answer to your question., i thinks some of it is scaremongering.There will be uproar if changes are made to PIP, although personally I think there needs to be big changes, there will be uproar if they cut anything else from pensioners- look at the uproar of a one off £200 annual wfp being taken away. Imagine what would happen if they started having a go at Attendance Allowance or the triple lock ?. I doubt they can have a go at children's DLA when as people have highlighted on this thread most of the claims are for ADHD/ Autism and currently the assessment processes are taking so long and SEN provision poor.
So what exactly are they going to do? I honestly can't see the push to get more disabled into work being successful, many have not worked for years on end. Many of the claimants I deal with are long term alcohol dependents being paid £500 every four weeks in PIP not to mention ESA with severe disability premiums. They have been claiming for years and are way better off than ever trying to support themselves in a minimum wage job. They will never get these long term claimants working and there are large numbers of them, along with all the long term chronically anxious who can't leave the house etc. Even if they were encouraged to work there are no jobs. The government will be full of bright ideas and their schemes will just end up costing more money with nothing to show for it. It's all just gone on for too long now.
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I think the reason why the Labour governement is looking at this is because it is essentially unaffordable long term. 21% of working population on disability benefits is unsustainable. If you look at the NHS, education, social care which are all struggling and need more support then it will be impossible to do this without reducing payments in other areas. I completely understand why there is the 21% however. So many people are struggling and there is no support. It is an impossible situation and I totally feel for those who are on disability benefits and are struggling. Ultimately there are not enough high earners (and lots are leaving the UK which is why Rachel Reeves is softening on the non-doms) to generate enough money. The NI increase on employers is causing issues. The only way to generate more income would be to increase tax on all tax payers which would not be popular and would lead to Labour losing the next general election.

More disabled people would be in work if work was kinder, fewer hours.

I think the problem is, that for many working people, they are also working in ‘unkind’ environments and working excessive hours. And finding life harder and harder financially and otherwise. That’s the root of the anger felt by some of the working population. And they then take that frustration out on immigrants, and benefit claimants who they see as doing very little and getting ‘free money’. Esp with MH conditions and neurodiversity.

I am not saying this is right or fair or reflects my own beliefs. But I get it.

I think whilst people are told by disabled people that they don’t understand, it seems that many disabled people also don’t understand why working people feel frustrated and resentful. People’s emotions can often be understood, even though at first glance they seem unfair.

Working people often don’t find the work environment easy either; they really don’t. And some of them work despite health issue of their own.

I made the mistake of writing off Brexit voters as ignorant racists. I think that was a mistake and I didn’t take time to understand the real issues behind people’s feelings, and it wasn’t only about being ‘racist’.

No I really can't myself at this point.

I'm reading some proposal papers atm in order to understand propositions made to address this ( Joseph Rowntree Foundation).

In my basic and limited understanding, I see this and believe there must be a way. I believe it would probably go against the ethos of capitalism and what would the consequences or potential ' punishment ' be collectively if those holding all the wealth help create opportunities in the country.

I believe some measures would also impact the funding that certain political parties may receive from wealthy benefactors. I believe corruption will play a part or at the very least conflict of interests between business and politics that go unchecked and perpetuate this. The issuing of lucrative contracts for example that benefit the organisations at the cost of the public

Because this is not easy to address, it's easier to go for the group that can't fight back or impose consequences. That much I really do see.

Yes, making work kinder (and probably more unionised in the private sector) needs to focus on it for everyone. But that will also benefit disabled people who will be pushed out of the job market if employers get away with shady practices. For the public, better pay and working conditions is win, win. Not only do you personally get better pay and work, you also don’t have your taxes used to prop up companies who under pay their staff and pocket the difference, through UC.

This point had been made endlessly on this thread but there are some posters that will just not have it

I can understand this being a source of frustration, but I don’t understand why the anger is aimed at people with limited ability to work rather than at employers with shitty working environments and practices.

And getting ‘free money’ for doing very little isn’t limited to benefits claimants. The biggest source of free money is inheritance.

@atotalshambles your post is really interesting. I have read up on the non dom turnaround. So basically, to some extent, a nation is at the mercy of a large corporation who may otherwise just leave and take their contribution with them.

Would this include individuals who have amassed ridiculous wealthy who don't necessarily provide jobs. I guess from this the issue is they'll just go elsewhere and can that ' loophole ' be addressed.