Taking away DD's phone.

[coolkatt]

Can you all tell me what to do regarding my DD (soon to be 13).

Against my better judgement we got her an iPhone for Xmas. She already had my old one and was able to work it, looked after it reasonable well.
She was not allowed sm apps. Snapchat, insta, fb. (All for a good reason).

She was always warned the minute I see the phone becoming detrimental to her it will be taken away. Eg, room not done, homework, jobs etc. she's usually pretty good in general, has had her moments where she is lazy, not doing things as asked, being a brat to her sister but generally, she's alright. If somethings not done, it's because she doesn't want to put the phone down.

She had a close friend group before starting secondary.

So when she started secondary she got into bother with a group of girls who were bullying her. I got school involved and it seemed to be sorted.
Then about 3 weeks ago it turns out that she has been very friendly with this group of girls, has turned her back on her friends from primary and was actually involved in bullying them. Including her very best pal. I was gutted and livid. This pal had been so good and her mum involved my daughter in everything, parties, trips holidays etc. I was gutted. I had a feeling something was up so took her phone thru the night and went thru it, (something she knows I will do sporadically, this was part of the deal of getting a new one). Spoke with the mum. Got it sorted. School involved. Lots of tears and stress. I was so gutted at her and disappointed. She tried to blame the other girls. I'm not a push over by any means and she was read the riot act. She was just as bad as the others I'm ashamed to say. Phone got taken as this was one of the ways the bullying/verbal abuse was happening. She has been on all sm, Snapchat was the worst.

So up to now she is not allowed to hang about with the bully girls. She's not allowed to be near them etc. no social media again. She's made up with her old friend and thought things were getting better. She's been going to her clubs etc where these girls don't go. There's a couple of other girls who are a bit trouble out of school she's not allowed near them either at night, at parks etc. I have tried my best to enforce this.

So I gave her her phone back. All apps been blocked. Told her again any more about the phone and it goes completely. Any sm apps on it it's gone. She does use it for help with homework, and school timetables etc. she also uses like utube for hair make up tutorials, she's starting to like music etc so following bands.

Today. Got woke up from night shift to come and collect her from school. Someone had grabbed her phone out her hand and as she couldnt get it back from them she kicked a glass door in. Shattered the whole lot. Then ran away. Teachers found out it was her and now she was send home and on Monday is in 'inclusion'. Classes outwith her class and breaks before everyone else. Phone has been removed permanently. When I went thru it she had been back on Snapchat.

So she really is not getting the phone back. I'm so sick of it. Anything she is in bother about revolves around this bloody phone. I have spoken to her about it till I'm blue in the face. So has my husband.

But i still feel like a fking asshole for taking it. She will be the only one without a phone in class. She does use it for homework etc.

If you have not switched off by now my question is...mums, what do u all do in this kind of situation? I'm sick to the back teeth of the phone but still feel like I'm depriving her and segregating her by taking it away. Kids use their phone for every single thing. She is on it to organise her clubs, her weekend etc. I feel really bad but I just can't trust her with the social media as she has proven yet again and her behaviour overall is way better when she doesn't have it. This today at school is just the icing on the cake. She's never done anything like that before.

I thought her using it for homework only might work but I prefer her thinking it's just gone, it's out the house sold, or whatever she thinks.

I just feel shit about her not getting it and scared I'm going to cause her to be singled out for not having one at school .

What would you all do. She isn't responsible enough for it is what I think. Anyone else in same boat??

Sorry I know I'm ranting now

I think you are doing the right thing. If her behaviour has deteriorated that much then its time to be the tough guy. Can she use a computer/laptop to keep up with her homework/clubs??? Are school going to charge her for the door repair??

Can you either provide a basic phone to enable her to text, call only
or
set up parental controls on her phone and disallow apps eg SM

at some point she would want some sm, so working with her on these is ideal but appreciate her behaviour has been poor.

do u have the phone overnight?

Get her a brick type nokia phone that she can use for phone calls and texts only. Once she has proven she can use that sensibly then you can consider a smartphone again but that might not be for a couple of years. Smartphones are a slippery slope imo even if you put all the restrictions on

She has a brick home for organising meet ups and lifts.

She accesses her iPhone with huge parental controls for things like homework etc.

But you talk to her. Her behaviour re the door was obviously unacceptable but how would you feel as an adult of someone snatched an expensive item of yours from your hand? How would you respond if you were walking down a street and mugged?

It's natural human instinct to react to perceived threat. I think your DD does need a consequence for her actions but she won't learn if she thinks the "thief" is getting away Scott free.

It's again human nature to not change your behaviour if you don't feel the balance is fair.

She's going to have access to these things eventually. You need to work with her to help her manage that effectively. Banning is the right thing to do but it isn't a long term solve all solution in isolation.

Get her an old style house brick phone for her school stuff. Trust me, you are doing the right thing. One day she will thank you for this.

I would hazard a guess that she's insecure and unhappy, for some reason(s), so the phone's not the issue, it's more a case of how she's using it and why?

iPhones were not really a thing when I was in school (I’m early 30’s) only a few kids had them.

I had a Motorola flip phone year 8-11 and an old style Nokia in year 7.

If it were me I’d get rid of the iPhone and give my child a basic phone.

I know it’s sad but a lot of young teens have become this way due to social media and iPhones being the norm. I know a lot of young girls bullied due to Snapchat etc.

I'm not sure if they are charging me for the glass they didnt mention it this morning but I have told DD the rest of her Xmas money and money she's got saved from pocket pocket money is all going to the school towards it.

Time for the phone to go 100%
The damage these things are doing to young teens is terrifying.

There is an interesting doc on Radio 4 called Living without my smartphone. Have a listen on BBC sounds. It's a real eye opener.

If/when you give it back, set up the parental controls. Set it so that she can't download any apps without your permission or knowledge and block the insta/tik tok etc websites. Don't let her download any other internet browsers as these circumvent the restrictions. I can do this with my dds phone as they are both androids, I'm sure its similar for iPhones

The phone is not the cause. Many kids have phones and don't kick in glass doors.

IMO the more parents clamp down on young teens having smartphones the better.

Mobile phone use and social media is going to the be scandal of this generation in twenty years time.

We need to get past this “if they don’t have a phone they’ll be isolated” train of thought. One of the biggest causes of bullying now is social media, one of the biggest causes of mental health issues in teens is social media. It’s high time that parents started parenting and clamping down on this stuff.

Personally I think that no child needs a smartphone or social media under the age of 18, and if I were making the law that’s exactly what I would do.

IIRC in Australia they’ve recently increased the age that children can go on SM.

But all this talk of “how would you feel,” people seem to be forgetting that she is a child. she clearly isn’t responsible enough to have a smartphone or social media, and it is your job to parent her.

And if she’s using social media to bully other children then the social media needs to go. It really is that simple.

I thought I had them all on but she still managed to get Snapchat back on without it coming to my phone for authorisation. It must've been another browser then maybe as you said. I will need to check all this again as thought I was being pretty smart with it all. Thank u x

I honestly agree with u 100%, it's just I feel like a total monster carrying it out and not letting her have it.

No the phone isn't the cause. The social media apps are... Snapchat being one of the ones that is most negatively affecting girls.

@coolkatt keep talking, perhaps watch/listen to some of the recent documentaries about the issues together. She will start to understand. And one day realise you did her an enormous favour.

Lots of children have phones and manage to not bully anyone or kick glass doors in...

We can completely blame the phone/apps here but maybe it might be worth looking a bit deeper?

Mine also started secondary with a small group from primary, none of them are good friends anymore, it took a few weeks but they all branched out and made new friends that suited them better and that's fine. Not sure trying to force your daughter to only be friends with specific people is going to work well.

Like if u actually go on the sm apps they are full of young pre teens all with videos on how they are all depressed, sad, suicidal even!!! It's a learned behaviour that are learning from these apps, they are putting videos up not even properly aware of what they are talking about or insinuating. It's actually pretrifying.
Eg they will
Put a sad song on, say they are depressed and not actually know what depression is. It's all for attention and a way of getting popular and more 'likes'.
What pre teen in first year of high school isn't insecure? Especially when all they watch is sm? It's such a vicious circle.

U am really going to consider this .im going to speak with the school again on Monday and find out exactly how much they need a phone for schoolwork. Thank u x

Hi OP

I really feel for you in this situation, but I too wonder if it’s not just the phone that needs to be looked into. You say she’s banned from going near some troublesome girls “at night”. What is she doing out at night unsupervised at 13? Also, “she’s never done this before” - that you know of, surely?

She sounds immature so perhaps getting in with the bully crowd was to “big herself up”? If that’s so, I think she will be safer with less autonomy than she has at the moment in all areas, not just her phone. Maybe it’s time to go back to the kind of rules that were in place when she was in Junior school and by imposing more structure you will hopefully do away with the “dead” time when she’s undirected and looking for mischief. Personally, I would maybe put more emphasis now on study and less on makeup, etc.

It would be best if, for a while, she had no phone at all, and when she has her next phone just the old brick one because she has problems with the other kind. Libraries have PCs for homework if she needs to go somewhere after school for access.

Also, apart from supervised clubs, she’d be grounded!

Is there something else going on here. The big issue for me is this. It's the big elephant in the room being skirted over. This is not typical.

Has she completely transformed overnight or have there always been challenges?

If all the apps are removed from the phone and she is downloading turn that's a big problem and she can't really have a phone other than a Nokia brick. She can sense you are wobbling. It's understandable but she knows you doubt yourself and your decisions. You have to be totally commited to what you decide. It's a very dangerous road all this. If all the apps are removed and she over rode that then no to the phone apart from a brick.

If you have time this weekend op I'd recommend doing at least one of the following:

Read this article www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1lve0d8nq3o.amp
Google smartphone free childhood
Look up the book The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

I agree with others - the phone isn't to blame in this. Those behavioural attributes aren't related to a phone at all. Something else is definitely going on.

If someone mugged you walking down a street you wouldn’t turn and kick a shop door in, would you? I think if she’d hit the person who grabbed her phone it would be slightly more justifiable, though obviously not ideal!

@coolkatt as a teacher I promise you that 90% of socially unacceptable behaviour these days, especially around friendships and bullying, comes from smart phones. I’d give her a brick.