To use a washed-up raw meat knife

[CuppaDog]

DP and I had a big dispute regarding a hygiene issue. As these happen regularly, I'd love to get a sense check from this esteemed audience.

I cut DD (10)'s bread roll with a kitchen knife. That knife was used to cut raw chicken on the day before and subsequently washed up and has been dry overnight.

The strongly expressed demand was that I immediately throw away the bread roll, and that this is "common sense".

YABU - Using a raw meat knife for directly eaten food is never acceptable, even if it has been washed up
YANBU - It's fine to use a raw meat knife as long as it has been washed up

But what do you do with the knife after you've cut them off? Is washing it enough, or must it be smelted and shot into space?

It's very hard to wash wooden butcher's block properly, especially massive one. Also like I mentioned before if people use same sponge for everything then the sponge will be contaminated.

I'm personaly not bother about using specific chopping board or knife for meat because they are plastic and I wash them properly in hot water.

Does he use disposable gloves when he chops chicken?

I’m pretty conservative when it comes to food safety and even I think this is bonkers.

i do wonder about using the same knife for bread and meat just because they aren’t best cut with the same knife. For bread I would want a serrated knife. For meat I would want a clean edge.

honestly, the serrated knife is only used for bread so maybe that is what started this all? It doesn’t always even really need a solid washing depending on what bread it cut. I’d never use it on meat or anything else though because it would ruin all those wonderful little serrations plus all sorts of stuff would get caught and cleaning it would be a nightmare

Your dh has some sort of OCD to be thinking like this.

Soak and hot wash tea towels, wipe clothes and wash up sponges regularly and or replace. Wash utensils, and wash and keep chopping boards for separate purposes.
Wash any plates that have had raw meat on them; do not use for cooked meat before washing - eg - at a BBQ..
Store raw meat on a plate and low down in fridge.

If the knife wasn't washed properly - that's gross and dangerous, but provided it was that's fine. Knives are completely shiny so they wash clean. I think the different coloured chopping boards thing is different - boards get tiny grooves in which can never be totally cleaned, which is why you don't use the board used for raw meat and fish for anything else.

Bit rude to call her DH batshit.
If his parents had separate utensils that would be ingrained in his mind.
As a chef I've worked in places with red everything to reduce contamination.
Perhaps his parents worked in restaurants.

I do like my Japanese knife set and must confess to using certain knives for certain duties. However, a clean knife is a clean knife.

China is an interesting cultural dimension and after working in APAC for many years, I'm not surprised at all by OPs husband's position. China is a nation of foodies - and this love of food extends beyond the consumption to the preparation.

What's more surprising is that it took 10 years to discover this discrepancy of culinary views!

Drip feed or what! why didn’t you put that in the OP?

he is unreasonable but for cultural reasons … which changes things a lot. FFS

I never understood why people say that HOT soapy water should be used. Surely, if the temperature was hot enough to kill bacteria we couldn't actually use it to wash anything by hand so it can't he that.

what is the point of using hot soapy water? Does it activate the washing up liquid or Something? Genuinely curious.

I separate out frying pans , some utensils and knives but that's because I'm vegan and prefer it

Oh god I had to name change for this 🤣 given everyone else’s responses. I am an Environmental Health officer. I personally put knives/ chopping boards that have been in contact with raw meat through the dishwasher as bacteria will be killed at high temp. I don’t like washing in fairy liquid and “hot water” which is probably only around 45/50oC and that won’t kill bacteria. If I did not have a dishwasher I would wash and then spray with anti bac spray and leave for a few minutes before rinsing/ or I would rinse with boiling water from my Quooker tap.

I’m Autistic and OCD, and even I would use the knife after washing it up. If it’s been washed in hot soapy water, and dried, it’s nice and clean.

My main concern here is that you're either cutting bread with a chef's knife, or cutting meat with a bread knife. I'm not sure which is worst.

Hygeine wise I have no issues with what you've said.

You don't have to kill bacteria to get rid of them - this is a myth and a misconception. What soap does is remove them by stopping them sticking to surfaces so that they are flushed or rinsed away. It is the same with hand washing - soap is more effective than antibac.

What soap and hot water does is remove DIRT. In this particular case bits of meat and blood. Bits of meat/other dirt can even be actually sterilised (which needs temps well above boiling) but remain a hazard because immediately after being sterilised, new bacteria can start to grow and by its nature meat can harbour the sort of bacteria that are potentially dangerous.

This is the same with the trying to clean hands with antibac or alcohol, or wiping surfaces down with antibac rather than something soapy. If the dirt is still there it can eventually become a hazard again. In fact domestic antibac surface sprays are basically detergents and dirt is removed by the wiping action. If all they did was kill bacteria they would be almost useless.

It doesn’t make any difference. It’s the soap and the friction and the duration of the scrubbing that breaks down and washes away the pathogens. Unless the water is actively boiling, the heat isn’t having an effect other than making it a more comfortable temperature for you to have your hands in. Whether it helps the liquid foam up I’m not sure.

If you ability to assess risk is this bad, but you willingly sit in your front room daily (the place you are most likely to have an accident), I'm sorry but I can't help you.

We have developed as a society, a fucked in the head attitude to risk where we are conditioned to over estimate certain risks (because they suit us and are reflected by our fears) and under estimate others (precisely because we don't want to see them because they are inconvenient).

As a result we are over run by 'the worried well', who a repeat hypochondriacs who suddenly have 'bowel cancer', because they've had one episode of constipation and therefore they decide they are dying rather than thinking about their risk level or whether it goes away after eating a bunch of prunes.

It’s a bit more complex than that. Surfactants break down the cell walls of bacteria which results in either denaturation or triggers cell lysis (assuming they’re used correctly). There does need to be friction involved though, and if you want to sanitise a surface thoroughly then it needs to be cleaned of dirt first and then disinfected.

There was a study on the effect of of soap vs alcohol gel vs soap + alcohol gel on hand cleanliness. Soap was superior to gel, but soap + gel was most effective. Not that most people require that level of hygiene!

Your husband is being ridiculous.

He's being so irrationally anxious about the knife I'd suspect OCD.

Ok, as some have asked, seems like I need to explain this one too.

I am quite fastidious about using the correct knives. And keeping those in good shape, using sharpening stones. I can cut a ripe tomato with no more pressure than the weight of the knife.

In this instance, though, I wanted to cut a U shaped kind of groove into the bread for which I needed a knife with a sharp tip that I can push into the roll, which doesn't work with the bread knife.

Maybe this style of knife would be a good compromise?

https://www.davidmellordesign.com/david-mellor-rosewood-serrated-vegetable-knife-12cm

As it’s designed for vegetables your DH could rest assured it had not crossed paths with any raw meat.

I have a degree in microbiology and worked in infection prevention in hospitals and honestly I'd use a raw meat having given it a quick splash under the tap.

Raw meat KNIFE. I don't splash raw meat under the tap.

Your H is being dense.