School readiness survey - surprising?

[GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

Is it really the case that 4 year olds (absent disabilities) are unable to climb stairs or sit on the rug because of too much screen time? It just seems so extraordinary to me.

Sure, but if you're a FTM in a bubble on your own, you have no frame of reference.

Take the cutlery example - ask some non-parents what age a child should be able to use a spoon to scoop, a fork to stab, and then knife and fork together to cut. I bet you'll get wildly different answers, and some that will just admit they have no idea.

Being around other children gives you an idea of where the rest are - if your toddler is confidently scooping but won't use a fork to stab, but all the other toddlers are moving onto knives and forks, it gives you a nudge to hammer the cutlery skills a bit more. Parents missed out on that group learning.

I'm not sure that all these complicated reasons don't just boil down to can't be arsed parents. Yes, I'm sure subjecting neglected children to spend more time with CBA parents will exacerbate things but I think it is an epidemic of neglect.

I worked in nursery’s twenty plus years ago. We were told off by a school for sending children who could read. We didn’t push them they just were naturally eager. I never heard of so many children not being ready for school as there are now. The pre school children i sent were absolutley able to do the things mentioned!

Not sure why day care is getting blamed. Children do not stop playing and exploring both inside and outside, there is little sedentary time apart from carpet time when children are engaged with a story or singing! Very little screen use. I’d imagine many ‘daycare’ kids play and are engaged with adults playing with them more than they do at home!

Are you kidding? We've never had more access to information. Sat in the pocket of most adults is enough information on children and child development than could be held in any library.

Unfortunately it’s across economic classes, not limited to parents just financially scraping by. Many middle class parents have little awareness of how to interact with or teach their children. Many middle class children are in nursery all day, come home straight to a screen for an hour or two until bedtime and then up again the next morning to do the same. Parents are relying on nursery workers to tell them what to do regarding toilet training as the kids are in nursery more waking hours than they are at home and parents don’t feel qualified to parent or make decisions for their own children. I don’t have all of the answers as to why or how to fix it but it’s very concerning.

haha... the sheer proliferation of info can sometimes be a barrier, particularly as a surprising number of people don't know how to access this info, or how to to assess and judge it for its validity. Again, just look at MN as an example - put a post up saying, "can I leave my 10 year old at home alone for an hour" and see the huge variation in answers.

I think @takealettermsjones makes a good point. And I'd say again that it's not just a covid thing, but a general shift to being less community focused.

I also think that poor parenting always existed but there were at least some mitigating factors - the community "it takes a village" mindset being one, schools being another. My gran was a head teacher in a primary school in a relatively deprived area some 45 years ago. the direct involvement she had with families is way beyond anything schools today can do. She visited children at home, she called parents in to offer support or guidance (and was listened to because she was seen as a trusted authority figure), she advocated for capable children from deprived homes to support them to get into grammar schools or whatever. But then, she also had a full time PA just for her. Her class sizes were smaller. The culture was different and certainly teachers were highly respected. It was a very different experience but I believe her and her colleagues probably had more opportunities to make a difference for the children than many teachers today who are simply overwhelmed.

@MsMarch re this bit "ON MN (which I concede might not be real life), the one that always strikes me is how long parents continue to get up at the crack of dawn with their children, or act horrified at families where mum and dad remain asleep while the 7 year old is up at 7am."

Can you share tips on how to remain asleep while you have two small children jumping up and down on you? Mine are both loud and bouncy when they wake up.

Yes, but you don't know what you don't know. You might be sitting there thinking your child is doing great because you've seen their amazing spoon skills progress from nothing. Would you necessarily think to look it up? And that's just one minor example - without seeing other children in the wild or having your mum around to go "erm, that doesn't look normal" you've suddenly got to look up absolutely everything. It's silly not to acknowledge that as parents we learn from others!

@NewYearStillFat @MoMhathair your posts made me feel very wistful. My son was born in Feb 2020 and I don’t think I will ever get over the isolation of those first few months. My PND wasn’t fully treated and sorted until 2022 & I won’t have another baby.

@Hugmorecats sorry - I got nothing if your children are jumping on you! Although I was always so grumpy when mine did I think they eventually got bored. But I'm not sure that's really parenting to emulate!

I was referring to people who come on here and say things like, "my five year old is quite happy to get up at 7 am and turn on cartoons or play with his lego and can get himself a drink and a snack from the fridge, is that okay" and the poster gets attacked and told that she shouldn't ever leave the 5 year old watchign tv in another room while she's snoozing!

Personally I do think there is an element of socio-economic status to these issues, although lazy parenting is also part of it too.

You can send your child to nursery full time where they won’t be on screens, but you then need to play with them, engage with them and cook good food for them in the evening. The cooking does not have to be expensive or time-consuming but laziness means some people think it does. Or they plonk their children in front of screens for some ‘me time’ instead of engaging with their children. That can be a combination of lazy parenting and also lack of money to spend their ‘me time’ in better ways, such as at an exercise class (if they have childcare or can afford it) or paying a cleaner so they don’t spend the evenings doing housework and giving a screen to keep children quiet during that.

I have a 4 month old baby. He’s had over 30 books since before he was born. I read to him in the womb! It was one of the first things I did when we came home from the hospital. He has 4 baby soft touch books and today he was able to turn a page in one of them because he is given them multiple times a day.

Our local children’s centre (formerly a SureStart centre) has monthly drop-in clinics with the health visitors. You can go for advice and to have your baby weighed. They also run free classes, including baby massage. I go to classes and I go to the drop-in with the health visitors every month. Every time the drop-in and classes are only used by first time parents in their mid to late 30s. They are homeowners with good jobs (so basically the middle class). Yet we actually live in a rural community, where there are many very young (often teenage) parents who are struggling with poverty. Yet you never see them at these classes or drop-ins. They have the same access to information about these sessions as I do. You don’t need a car or money to attend. But you probably need to understand why they are useful and perhaps that’s what is lacking.

For those that do or did struggle too - it’s no comfort to them to hear others were just able to do better.

Imagine a friend saying they’re having a hard time and you just told them “I’m not, you should do better” because that’s effectively what’s being said.

So many implying it's women's working full time that is the cause of it, masking it as "parents having to work". Think of extremely successful countries and cultures where the concept of stay at home mothers is almost non existent yet childhood is wholesome and people grow into intelligent capable individuals and these countries have very high standards of living e.g many Scandinavian and other European countries.

And if you are old enough to remember quite a few women staying at home during early childhood in a short period in history (60s-70s), since less affluent women always had to work, you will remember that motherhood was a lot less intense with children spending almost the whole day outdoors, no overscheduled activities,and siblings having responsibilities.

And nursery. Implying nursery is to blame??? Kids who go to full time nursery are far more advanced on average.

What it will be is the lack of outdoor free play, overscheduled routines with 2 and 3 year old being driven to dance and football classes when they should be playing, and then sitting in front of screens all day, parents' belief in advancing their kids through these activities until the child loses all ability to play freely, and, more importantly, screens and gaming that destroy any ability of children to play independently. Plus cars and being driven everywhere. Too many cars and population being more transient in big cities are prohibitive to having free spaces for kids to play out independently.
So by age 5 or 6 you end up with a child who's done it all, is bored out of their mind, and has "outgrown" actual physical and imaginative toys and games while being unable to toilet themselves or climb the stairs.

@MsMarch see to me that just sounds like heaven. My kids want to play loud, active, high-energy games WITH ME from the moment they wake till about ten minutes before they fall asleep.

Are you kidding? We've never had more access to information. Sat in the pocket of most adults is enough information on children and child development than could be held in any library

@ByMerryKoala That's assuming an ability to filter and interpret that information, factoring in relevant context, and some knowledge of which sources are reliable and trustworthy and which aren't. I'd say those skills are lacking across huge swathes of the population.

I’m so sorry to read that. I love being a Mum but when I think back to that time and see the photos there’s always the memory of how bloody hard it was! I am still mad at my boss, and organisation generally for expecting us to work with kids at home. I honestly think it’s cruel.

Also, to add, we will not be allowing our child access to a screen. I’ve noticed he is attracted to the TV if I have it on when we are playing or he is being fed, so I now turn it off. Instead, I talk to him during feeds and play or we put the radio on and I sing along to songs for him. We also listen to some classical music sometimes too.

We recently went out with a group of friends, which included several toddlers. Not a screen in sight! The toddlers sat nicely at the dinner table with us, doing colouring in or playing with some building blocks. It can absolutely be done. And all the parents of those toddlers work full time. They don’t allow screens.

All those provisions closed during Covid. HV didn’t visit!

Pls update us on this when you've got three kids and you're back at work 😉🤣

@Poppicorns I don't agree that children are bored by the age of 5 or 6, but I'd add to your earlier comments about over scheduling in tha this is another way they often lack independence. DD's dance school has never allowed parents in to watch the sesssions. they take children from age about 3 and the principle told me once that quite often, parents come along for a trial at age 3 or even 4 or 5, and don't come back because the child or the parent are unwilling to let the child go into the class alone. DD tried to start dance the term before she turned 4 but turned out, she wasn't ready to go into a class alone (I was VERY ready to let her but clearly hadn't done the work for her to feel the same!), so we spent a term talking to her about it and prepping her about how "when she turns 4 she'll be big enough" and then off she toddled, slightly nervous but excited, the week after her 4th birthday! That dance school is now the highlght of her weeks, she's made loads of friends there and is so independent and capable. But I did have to do the work to make sure she got there, and franlky, i almost didn't do it int ime.

Yes and it’s not all credible information - your algorithm follows your interests. I’m sure that’s accountable for the huge anti vax movement.

I'm sorry to hear that @MyIvyGrows. My sister's son was born in Jan 2020, so by March she had built up a good network and was settling in to being a mother. Then bam - all that was taken away and she was isolated in her house. She can't talk about that time without getting upset. She did have a second and I think the experience was healing for her.

Yup yesterday, as I typed an email, my smallest vomited on the floor behind me 🤣

Sorry! I feel your pain. You could try my grumpiness trick!?

I have a friend in a similar situation to you in that she's never had a lie in because her older child is ND still very "toddler" like in terms of mornings and inability to be independent. It's bloody hard.

But join one of those threads one day. It's mindblowing the aggression some posters come on with to rant about poor parenting if the 5 year old is eating a brioche and helping himself to a cup of milk at 7am!

@Poppicorns I’m not sure if it’s my post that you’re referring to, but I don’t mean to blame nurseries as a concept, just the way they are currently being implemented in the UK in many cases. I visited a number of nurseries as I do use one myself but the vast majority had no or very limited outdoor space, large numbers of children in one small room for the better part of 10 hours a day, and underqualified staff with high turn over. This is not conductive to healthy child development.