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School readiness survey - surprising?

425 replies

GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry · 30/01/2025 11:59

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

Is it really the case that 4 year olds (absent disabilities) are unable to climb stairs or sit on the rug because of too much screen time? It just seems so extraordinary to me.

Some children starting school ‘unable to climb staircase’, finds England and Wales teacher survey

‘Covid baby’ explanation starting to feel like an excuse, say some teachers, as quarter of children begin reception in nappies

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

OP posts:
LuluBlakey1 · 30/01/2025 21:10

Poor parenting is at the root of this.

I have been in a primary school today near to Newcastle where they employ two support staff to help Reception children catch up skills and cope with school- toileting, eating, playing, manners, managing temper tantrums, talking , not swearing, sitting quietly, enjoying books, being able to put coats on and shoes on and fasten them, washing faces and hands, enjoying drawing/paint. So many now turn up never having done so many basic things. They see increasing numbers who just can't do basic things because no one teaches them. They are not expecting them all to do everything perfectly of course but so many come with very few basic skills.
They have a little boy in Reception who is a terror- shouts if he can't have his own way, swears, pushes adults and children out of the way, had never had a book, is late every day because his mum doesn't get up in time to get him into school. He is very overweight and will only eat rubbish food. He takes anything he likes. His mum (no dad on scene) has social services involvement. Her behaviour is like his. Her father comes up to the school in tempers shouting and demanding too. They all look and behave the same way.
The school are doing their best with him but today, for example, I was talking to a member of staff in a corridor and he barrelled out of a classroom, like a rugby prop forward, shouting and swearing, stormed into the toilets kicking the door and was followed very calmly by a male member of support staff who deals with him effectively. The issue was he didn't want to do painting and craft because 'it's boring shit'. He is a bully and a thug at 4/5. It's hard to understand how a 4/5 year old can have reached this state but it's appalling parenting.

ballroompink · 30/01/2025 21:10

arethereanyleftatall · 30/01/2025 21:04

I've been a swimming teacher for 20 years and the difference I am seeing at the beginner end in the last few years is horrific.
We have ratios set years ago - you can have up to 8 x 3 yr olds in one class, one teacher in the water.
It is no longer safe and I now refuse to do it.
About 10% of the kids have such low/non existent core strength that even with umpteen floatation devices they flop forward, face down. Can't hold their body. They then can't actually climb out of the water using the steps. Need to be lifted out. I have never in all my years teaching seen any kid to have the lack of strength of the last two years.

That's shocking - is that because they do no physical activity?

I do know of 4 and 5 year old children who are extremely resistant to physical activity and hate walking etc.

Hardbackwriter · 30/01/2025 21:19

I was so shocked by this article that I looked up the original report (it's on the charity's website). It's a mostly ok piece of research that has been poorly reported. The question they asked parents is whether 'children should know how to use books properly' before starting school - they didn't give them the context stated in that article that they meant 'knows it isn't a tablet'. I'm honestly not sure how I'd answer that question without more context of how it was meant. That's just not good survey design.

Similarly much has been made of the 'shocking' percentage of parents who say parents aren't solely responsible for toilet training - but the vast majority said they were either solely or mostly responsible. It's just crap, sensationalist reporting.

arethereanyleftatall · 30/01/2025 21:19

I presume so @ballroompink
Literally none at all.

KS2 criteria is jump in, 25m, climb out deep end. The number of 10yo kids with no disabilities who cannot climb out of a pool is shocking. Some of them have beautiful strokes. Their parent has made sure they ticked the learn to swim stages, but after that it's straight on to the iPad, not a park or a tree climbed in their life.

In fact, even though it's in the KS2 curriculum, for the first year ever, we have had 2 parents already complaining that 'their child was humiliated' by being made to climb out.

FumingTRex · 30/01/2025 21:26

I dont think its actually fair to blame all this on parents? We live in a society where all parents are expected to work. In nurseries they are expected to sit doing phonics and writing and there is little outside space. Its no longer safe or acceptable for children to play outside unsupervised. Nurseries are also reluctant to have children out of nappies if they are having accidents. There are downsides to putting children in group childcare for most of their waking hours.

ItalianChineseIndianMexican · 30/01/2025 21:34

SlipDigby · 30/01/2025 19:36

Surprising? No. Depressing? Yes.

This. Just so sad.
And yes, I (mostly) blame the parents.

StormingNorman · 30/01/2025 21:42

This was the shocker for me:

Three in four (76%) identified toilet training as something a child should be able to do before reception.

A quarter of parents don’t think their children should be toilet trained by the time they go to school.

takealettermsjones · 30/01/2025 21:50

I just feel like modern life is a bit depressing... I want to spend my days reading and baking with my kids, taking them to parks and up hills and letting them climb trees. Instead I cram all of this into two days a week and go to work for the rest. I want to say no screens, but their homework is on screens, so I have no choice. I read with them every day, but while they're sitting indoors reading they're not riding their bike or learning how to do a handstand. I found out last weekend that my four year old's classmate can identify different leaves; it's never even crossed my mind to teach that. I want to encourage free play and imagination and teach them to entertain themselves if they're bored, but what if I'm missing the perfect window to start a lifelong hobby? Should they have had a couple of years' music lessons under their belts by now? I've just made a mental note for myself to check whether they can climb out of a pool (we swim every week, but I had no idea they had to do this). Parenting is a full time job and parents are doing it in fits and starts because they need to work as well. It's exhausting for everyone involved tbh.

HowAmITheCatsGranny · 30/01/2025 21:51

StormingNorman · 30/01/2025 21:42

This was the shocker for me:

Three in four (76%) identified toilet training as something a child should be able to do before reception.

A quarter of parents don’t think their children should be toilet trained by the time they go to school.

I wonder though if this is another example of poor survey design? Did they specify day time trained? Or are those who answered no doing so because many many children are not night time trained at four (the necessary hormone production usually kicks in at around age 7).

Getitwright · 30/01/2025 21:58

I have a neice who is a Headteacher in Infants. She was telling me that so many very young children have next to no core muscle strength, they simply loll like rag dolls at times. These are not all children from difficult families either. They simply don’t get the chance to run around, go for walks, do any kind of exercise that strengthens young muscles, but are carried, ferried around in cars, plonked in front of screens, etc….

It does rather make you wonder what kind of a state some humans are going to be in, in a few more generations.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/01/2025 21:59

Kitte321 · 30/01/2025 20:05

What a really worrying report. How can a child (without disabilities) not be physically able to walk up and down stairs or sit on a carpet? Seriously? I have a two year old who is potty trained and able to do those things. It’s baffling.

Going up and down nicely carpeted stairs in a house is considerably different to having to navigate hard, concrete, often urine stained ones in communal blocks, needing to be carried up broken down, algae (and dog/bird shit on the estate I used to live on) covered external ones or using a lift.

Same way that sitting on a carpet only happens if there's a carpet to sit on. If a kid's grown up with either rough floorboards/manky rented accommodation carpet, they won't have sat on it and if they've lived somewhere with hard flooring, it won't have been warm enough to sit on - and to then sit on commercial carpet would feel strange, uncomfortable and itchy.

RafaistheKingofClay · 30/01/2025 22:04

ballroompink · 30/01/2025 21:10

That's shocking - is that because they do no physical activity?

I do know of 4 and 5 year old children who are extremely resistant to physical activity and hate walking etc.

I’d guess some aspects of physical development might be down to lack of work/life balance within the household. If you have two working parents and are always having to rush everywhere then it’s a) easier to do stuff for a child rather than give them time to do it and b) shove kids in buggy or from house to car seat rather than walking at toddler speed from a-b. Similarly, you probably need to get chores done in the time you do have at home and a screen is an easy distraction.

If one parent is at home then there is more time so you’ve got time to walk home or from a-b at toddler speed.

sunshine244 · 30/01/2025 22:05

I live near a lovely playpark - the only one in my village. I am genuinely astounded how often we are the only family there. The families I do see tend to be the same few ones over and over. Apart from the odd very sunny weekend when everyone appears at once.

I always wonder where everyone else is. Do they just not spend time outdoors? It didn't used to be like this pre covid - it was always busy particularly straight after school.

I see far fewer families out on their bikes on the cycle path these days too. It's really sad.

RafaistheKingofClay · 30/01/2025 22:06

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/01/2025 21:59

Going up and down nicely carpeted stairs in a house is considerably different to having to navigate hard, concrete, often urine stained ones in communal blocks, needing to be carried up broken down, algae (and dog/bird shit on the estate I used to live on) covered external ones or using a lift.

Same way that sitting on a carpet only happens if there's a carpet to sit on. If a kid's grown up with either rough floorboards/manky rented accommodation carpet, they won't have sat on it and if they've lived somewhere with hard flooring, it won't have been warm enough to sit on - and to then sit on commercial carpet would feel strange, uncomfortable and itchy.

A lot of problems we are increasingly seeing in pre school children are not restricted to those in poverty though. They are across all social groups.

Powderblue1 · 30/01/2025 22:08

That's bizarre. My 4 year old started reception this past September and he can walk upstairs and turns pages of a book.

This can't be right, surely!

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:10

pinksquash13 · 30/01/2025 20:13

V v concerning. I worry hugely about screen time for youngsters. There are plenty who are on screens all the time and the parents don't know how to manage it. I have no idea how you get to that place. Be a parent!! The poster who says it's fine for average reception kids and beyond to be in nappies; it's not! Be embarrassed and do something about it!

Literally this
parents act like there isn’t a choice. Don’t give your fucking children a screen in the first place !

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:10

RafaistheKingofClay · 30/01/2025 22:06

A lot of problems we are increasingly seeing in pre school children are not restricted to those in poverty though. They are across all social groups.

I actually think screen time worse in middle class families I know

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:12

Getitwright · 30/01/2025 21:58

I have a neice who is a Headteacher in Infants. She was telling me that so many very young children have next to no core muscle strength, they simply loll like rag dolls at times. These are not all children from difficult families either. They simply don’t get the chance to run around, go for walks, do any kind of exercise that strengthens young muscles, but are carried, ferried around in cars, plonked in front of screens, etc….

It does rather make you wonder what kind of a state some humans are going to be in, in a few more generations.

Terrifying

driven to nurseries
trapped inside most of the day
driven home
beige food for tea, in a rush in front of a screen
bed
repeat

takealettermsjones · 30/01/2025 22:14

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:12

Terrifying

driven to nurseries
trapped inside most of the day
driven home
beige food for tea, in a rush in front of a screen
bed
repeat

If both parents have to work... what do you suggest?

Getitwright · 30/01/2025 22:16

It’s simply piss poor parenting across all socio economic groups, and grown ups not understanding how child development works. Mentally, physically and socially. Poor little so and so’s don’t have a prayer, they are statistics in waiting as soon as they are born.

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:16

takealettermsjones · 30/01/2025 22:14

If both parents have to work... what do you suggest?

Well, truly I think instead of funding childcare there should be an option to pay this to a parent to stay at home with the child.
I see no benefit in childcare for the child (confirmed no benefit under age of 3).
BUT I also don’t think that’s an excuse for the fucking awful parenting I see day in day out

not a day goes by I see babies and toddlers in prams with the parents ignoring them - literally with AirPods in! It’s absolutely INSANE. Parents need to TALK to their kids, interact and play. And put their phones down.

makes me wonder why some people even have children. So depressing.

GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry · 30/01/2025 22:18

takealettermsjones · 30/01/2025 22:14

If both parents have to work... what do you suggest?

I do think this is a bit of a cop-out. I worked full time and my daughter was at nursery. I would pick her up, take her home and play with her, make dinner, read to her and put her to bed. Every weekend we went to the park and playground. It meant a lot of late nights catching up on work after she was asleep, but that's life! And I wasn't in an undemanding job, I'm a City lawyer.

OP posts:
Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:18

Getitwright · 30/01/2025 22:16

It’s simply piss poor parenting across all socio economic groups, and grown ups not understanding how child development works. Mentally, physically and socially. Poor little so and so’s don’t have a prayer, they are statistics in waiting as soon as they are born.

And you can’t say ANYTHING about it, look at on here

’oh little Timmy will only eat McDonald’s fries we have to drive there every single day or he has a meltdown’

someone stating the obvious ‘well why did you give him them in the first place?’

OH MY GOSH you can’t say that!! What if he has additional needs!! You’re so mean!! Etc etc

sorry but needs or no needs parenting right now is in the fucking gutter

Dsdurga · 30/01/2025 22:19

GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry · 30/01/2025 22:18

I do think this is a bit of a cop-out. I worked full time and my daughter was at nursery. I would pick her up, take her home and play with her, make dinner, read to her and put her to bed. Every weekend we went to the park and playground. It meant a lot of late nights catching up on work after she was asleep, but that's life! And I wasn't in an undemanding job, I'm a City lawyer.

This 👏🏻

Saz12 · 30/01/2025 22:19

Toilet training needs the nursery and rhe parents to be doing the same thing / same broad approach.
Stairs is a funny one - we had a bungalow when mine were small so they LOVED stairs in other people's houses (and various shops on retail park which were an ENORMOUS treat). I guess if you're very risk averse, busy, and dont have enough shops that are about to go bust nearby, and have no stairs yourself... then 🤷.
The question re: using a book appropriately is open to misinterpretation - if youre doing the survey quickly & its boring, then easy to assume it means reading. Turning the pages the right way? Or not scribbling on it? Recognising what its for? Not using it as a hat? Recognising that the marks are pictures, or the concept that those squiggles make noises and the noises make words?
One teacher said 2 children couldn't sit on the floor. Not that 40% couldn't. They could have all sorts of muscle issues, and be twins... it would be appalling that a very significant number of 4 year olds dont have the physical strength or fitness for every day activities.
Maybe we should have a better expectation of public spaces - dogs, litter, etc.
ASN, by definition, don't affect 44% of children (if they did, it would just be typical support needs).

Simple option - nurseries be given pamphlets to pass to parents that clearly show what children should be working towards before they start school? Not "your child must be able to..." but "some things children enjoy learning at 3-4 years and will help them transition to school are xyz".

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