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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School readiness survey - surprising?

425 replies

GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry · 30/01/2025 11:59

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

Is it really the case that 4 year olds (absent disabilities) are unable to climb stairs or sit on the rug because of too much screen time? It just seems so extraordinary to me.

Some children starting school ‘unable to climb staircase’, finds England and Wales teacher survey

‘Covid baby’ explanation starting to feel like an excuse, say some teachers, as quarter of children begin reception in nappies

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

OP posts:
Fern95 · 31/01/2025 15:51

My child has too much screen time but she's way 'ahead' in everything. I don't think it's the screen time holding kids back, it's the not having enough of everything else (outdoor time, play, time to be bored, time with older children and adults etc).

Books need to actually be good, not the boring plot line of Peppa pig or Bing just written on paper. Screen time is easily mitigated afterwards by turning it off and playing Scrabble or making some cakes to take to the park. Parents need to speak to their kids in the park and point out magpies, ladybirds etc and not just sit on the bench tolerating the outing. People need to enjoy seeing their children learn and progress and not think it's something that only happens elsewhere (at school or nursery).

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 16:04

No I don't think it's just screen time.

Mine get too much (I feel, though it's timed and regulated and limited to what they are allowed to watch or play on.) both doing well. Eldest especially and I worried about his lack of reading at primary.

But we do a lot of other 'stuff.' House is bloody tip not Instagram ready because we'd rather go to the beach or some national trust / English heritage site where they get filthy.

I'm also lucky that while they can't really play out near by, there's a safe open space up the road where they can go and hang out, play football etc. and friends live in many houses nearby. we allowed that independently from age 10. It's also middle school system so they tend to start walking to school by themselves at a younger age than primary I think.

Just a fun fact; Apparently in Japan the government give all children a sort of mobile phone from age 4-12. It has 10 numbers and they can make 10 calls and 10 texts per month. It hangs around their necks and they walk to school in their own from age 4. Accessing the phone in an emergency.

BogRollBOGOF · 31/01/2025 16:19

Galashiels · 31/01/2025 14:20

I've got another theory, neglectful parents have always existed but in the past the parents made them go outside and they learnt to play with other children and build their physical motor skills (obviously this wasn't perfect kids got kidnapped hit by cars, did naughty things etc) nowadays neglectful parents just let them game or play on the iPad all day so they don't really learn anything.

I agree with this.

Financial pressures have also shifted the demographics on who has children (and their support network)

Concientious parents are having children later and fewer children. There's less experience gained through having multiple children. Smaller networks as there are fewer cousins (and less likely to be local), friends have fewer children. Support is more formalised and professional. NCT groups, activities, childcare. State support has declined (HVs, Sure Start). Access to these was decimated during 2020/21. While that is now a small portion of school starter's lives, the legacy is the connections that were never made, and the strain on services when additional support/ early intervention is needed.

Feckless families have always existed, and the proportion of them in some areas will increase as concientious people are priced out of parenting. The rise in aggressive (drug fuelled sometimes) behaviour deters people from calling out poor and anti-social behaviour because of the not-insignificant risk of initiating a tirade of abuse.

There have long been people distrustful of authority and education (and not necessarily without underlying issue/ traumatic trigger) and it's very difficult to target support or advice to people who don't want to engage. The stakes are higher in society now literacy is essential in the majority of employment and the role of academic qualifications has increased. Where parents lack life skills and literacy, that significantly restricts their ability and opportunity to do better for their own children. We have cycles of multi-generational families that have struggled since de-industrialisation changed their social frameworks. While many communities adapted and diversified, many didn't and fell behind.

I'm glad I had my children in the early 2010s before I had a smart phone (I went down the Blackberry route in that era). DS1 was very fortunately diagnosed with his SENs shortly before Covid restrictions. The paper trail went back to me flagging speech development concerns and raising them during a HV check with DS2 during the toddler years; a year later he was sufficiently behind for intervention which was largely done at nursery, and that got him "school ready" in time. I did all the "right" things... took him to parks, shopping, groups, and it was all stimulus for chatter. Chatting at home was harder, less varied.
For the DS1s born 10 years later, they were deprived of so much support, stimulus and intervention that got DS1 to where he needed to be. The gap is wider than it would have been in previous cohorts.

Trends were happening anyway but what Covid did was blow it into a sudden generational problem.
While we will soon pass beyond Covid-babies, the legacy is that support is not where it was in 2019 (and certainly not where it was 10 years earlier) and it is still harder to access support to be school ready. It will have also affected the experience of parents having younger siblings now as an indirect consequence.

There are also children with clear SENs being sent to fail at or be damaged by mainstream schools. That's a lose:lose all round as they don't get the support they need for optimum development and also compromises other children in need of a bit more nurture as well as everyone else, both in terms of resource avaliability and recognising the range of difficulty when it's been distorted by children beyond the range reasonably expected to be in that setting.

It's not a neat one issue problem. There's lots of layers of factors, some long term trends in society/ lifestyle, some political consequences and some ongoing consequences from Covid restrictions.

Poppicorns · 31/01/2025 16:44

takealettermsjones

Both parents had to work throughout most of history, so that's not it.
Busy working parents typically still have time to ferry their toddler and primary aged kids to multiple activities per week, so that's not the reason. And anyway it's generally not their kids unable to sit on the carpet. Plus plenty of exercise in many after school clubs.
The ones delayed more often than not will have one or two parents not working or working extremely part time.
And you know it 😏 so let's not try making women feel bad for working.

takealettermsjones · 31/01/2025 16:56

Poppicorns · 31/01/2025 16:44

takealettermsjones

Both parents had to work throughout most of history, so that's not it.
Busy working parents typically still have time to ferry their toddler and primary aged kids to multiple activities per week, so that's not the reason. And anyway it's generally not their kids unable to sit on the carpet. Plus plenty of exercise in many after school clubs.
The ones delayed more often than not will have one or two parents not working or working extremely part time.
And you know it 😏 so let's not try making women feel bad for working.

Edited

Most of history? Really?

And you know it

I don't "know it" and I'm not exactly clear what it is you're trying to say to me.

I haven't mentioned women, I've talked about parents. And I'm not sure why I would want to make women feel bad for working when I am a woman who works full time, as I've said.

museumum · 31/01/2025 17:01

Getitwright · 30/01/2025 21:58

I have a neice who is a Headteacher in Infants. She was telling me that so many very young children have next to no core muscle strength, they simply loll like rag dolls at times. These are not all children from difficult families either. They simply don’t get the chance to run around, go for walks, do any kind of exercise that strengthens young muscles, but are carried, ferried around in cars, plonked in front of screens, etc….

It does rather make you wonder what kind of a state some humans are going to be in, in a few more generations.

My ds was identified at 4 as having poor core strength for sitting on the carpet. He wasn’t at all inactive, he could swim and ride a pedal bike by then and had lots of outdoor time, and ate all his meals at a dining table. But he did fidget and loll. I don’t know why, he grew out of it in a term or so.

2025NewUserName · 31/01/2025 17:05

museumum · 31/01/2025 17:01

My ds was identified at 4 as having poor core strength for sitting on the carpet. He wasn’t at all inactive, he could swim and ride a pedal bike by then and had lots of outdoor time, and ate all his meals at a dining table. But he did fidget and loll. I don’t know why, he grew out of it in a term or so.

I got told by my disabled child's OT that his core strength hadn't developed because he was never in one position long enough to build up the strength. He was running around, climbing all day, but no sitting. I'll be honest, I had never noticed any lack of core strength because he was like a monkey, dangling off things constantly. He did lie down to look at his toys when lining them up etc.

TempsPerdu · 31/01/2025 17:07

@BogRollBOGOF Brilliant post. I recognise some of your first paragraph in myself - late to parenthood, only one DC, not much in the way of a 'village' or family support, elderly grandparents, no cousins in the U.K. I've felt quite isolated at times, but in our case much of it has been mitigated by our education, life experience and financial resources. Obviously it won't have been for many others.

Most of my school and university friends had their DC a good decade before us, and their experience has differed so much from ours - much more external support and intervention, Sure Start, child trust funds, pre-pandemic, pre-cost of living crisis... Almost all of them worked part-time when their DC were little but managed to maintain their professional level jobs and have gradually worked their way back up to FT. By contrast all of our NCT and school friend peers are working flat out full time just to pay the mortgage. I am very much the outlier staying at home (the only other people I know who have done this were the monied posh girls I worked with in publishing back in the day, who all married bankers!)

Poppicorns · 31/01/2025 17:12

Sorry to hear that and am pleased it resolved by itself.
But may be there is something in making tiny kids swim and ride a bike before they are ready that also causes issues like that in that muscles dont develop in the right order and which is part of the same pushy, overscheduled yet extremely indulgent my child is always right parenting.
Parents making toddlers who can't brush their teeth by themself or put a coat on do swimming lessons and ride bikes are part of the problem.
None of these kids took half an hour to learn to ride a bike which is how long it takes it once they are genuinely ready, I bet my lunch they were taken out and forced to do it over many months.
I know of parents where children can't dress themselves but have been tortured into riding a bike at 4 or have tried every activity under the sun while barely having any independence.
All disabilities and health problems aside.

ThunderLeaf · 31/01/2025 17:15

I mean the easy solution is just to not get a screen whilst young. We've never allowed tablets until after 5 years old. Yes house was a bit clogged and messy as any walls throughout house was lined with play kitchen, workbench, books, crafts, ikea toy drawers, but always keeping busy and into something. Now most family homes portrayed on social media seem quite clinical, even beige or grey childrens bedrooms seem fashionable as long as the child is neatly tucked away with a screen so as not to cause any mess.

It is terrible and seems to be socially acceptable to give young kids tablets. Even when we gave at 5 years old I still felt a bit young, but it was a heavily restricted amazon kids tablet so it wasn't used that much, kids older now and i'm still strict and don't allow youtube as I think it's a lot of mind rot.

I can easily tell the kids who have had too much screen time whilst young as they developed and have retained an american twang to their accent and we live in Scotland!!!

Unpaidviewer · 31/01/2025 17:25

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 15:51

90 percent of brain growth happens before the age of 5. So I'm guessing most of those children will never catch up or be able to reach their true potential.

Whilst this may be true, and the early years are incredibly important, it is entirely possible for them and adults to catch up academically. With the right determination, facilitators who understand what might pique a desire to learn, scaffold that learning effectively and develop determination and mindset, it is possible. (Adam Grant's book 'hidden potential' is a great description of the hows and whys.)

What has more of an impact on not doing so are the things that hinder social interaction, communication and self regulation skills. (Neglect, trauma etc) The second great brain growth stage, puberty, can offer opportunities to further develop all this, again with the right support, but it tends to be harder. Not least as that right support is so hard to find.

Thank you. I'll check this out. It's such an interesting topic especially when you have little DCs.

floppybit · 31/01/2025 17:29

arethereanyleftatall · 30/01/2025 21:04

I've been a swimming teacher for 20 years and the difference I am seeing at the beginner end in the last few years is horrific.
We have ratios set years ago - you can have up to 8 x 3 yr olds in one class, one teacher in the water.
It is no longer safe and I now refuse to do it.
About 10% of the kids have such low/non existent core strength that even with umpteen floatation devices they flop forward, face down. Can't hold their body. They then can't actually climb out of the water using the steps. Need to be lifted out. I have never in all my years teaching seen any kid to have the lack of strength of the last two years.

Wow, that's shocking. Thank you for this post, v interesting to hear how things have changed.

Poppicorns · 31/01/2025 17:41

Thunderleaf

I agree. Sounds like a normal house where children live and are allowed to be children.

Not the clinical "clutter-free" nightmare achieved by non stop cleaning and tidying while the child is pacified with screens.

I think it's also some "aspirational" sections of society that don't actually get it what it's like to be what they aspire to be

AnaMond · 31/01/2025 18:26

Oodlesandoodlesofnoodles · 31/01/2025 14:58

I hope teachers don’t assume my child uses Americanisms because of screen time. One of his parents is American!

But we would know that about your family as I did for the family where dad was an American airman at the local base.

Half the class in a small market town in Yorkshire….mmmm

Hiccupsandteacups · 31/01/2025 18:30

MissyB1 · 30/01/2025 19:34

Sadly it doesn't surprise me. I've worked in Early Years and the amount of kids who have not experienced all the things they need for their normal development is depressing. Kids who have never been to a park, don't own any books, aren't being toilet trained, only eat beige food - but can't feed themselves. I could go on and on...

We need to bring back sure start centres.

We’ve got sure start centres around us (mixed area middle class and some poverty) is this something that has ended in other parts of the country? I took my small children to a free play session at one yesterday

NewYearStillFat · 31/01/2025 18:44

There are also children with clear SENs being sent to fail at or be damaged by mainstream schools. That's a lose:lose all round as they don't get the support they need for optimum development and also compromises other children in need of a bit more nurture as well as everyone else, both in terms of resource avaliability and recognising the range of difficulty when it's been distorted by children beyond the range reasonably expected to be in that setting.

i think this is a bigger issue than people will dare admit for fear of being labelled discriminatory. I have a teenager family member with pretty significant developmental delays (they’re probably 18m developmentally) and mobility issues, so I feel I speak with some experience and awareness. They have always gone to a specialist setting, even nursery.

Since my DC started school I am shocked by the children who are attending mainstream. My own observations are that they are not only struggling in the environment and do not fulfilling their potential or even enjoying their time spent in education they’re also incredibly disruptive to the rest of the class and even with 1:1 pull resource away from the other children.

Frequently I try and get an adults attention to acknowledge my son has arrived - eye contact is fine - I just want to know
someone Is aware he has arrived in the classroom - and I can’t because they’re wrestling a particular child who is always trying to escape or otherwise restraining them because they’re trashing the classroom.

I asked my son which playground he goes on for break and he told me, but said only if child X isn’t being tricky, for if child X is being tricky the whole class has to go back inside.

i just don’t think that’s acceptable for anyone - the balance of the children whose outdoor play is determined by the mood of one child, nor for the child who is “tricky” and clearly massively unregulated at school.

I really do think it’s more of an issue than people admit. With classes of such mixed ability and need it’s impossible to cater to them all plus the children who are middle of the road don’t get the support to achieve their potential.

StandFirm · 31/01/2025 18:54

LuluBlakey1 · 30/01/2025 21:10

Poor parenting is at the root of this.

I have been in a primary school today near to Newcastle where they employ two support staff to help Reception children catch up skills and cope with school- toileting, eating, playing, manners, managing temper tantrums, talking , not swearing, sitting quietly, enjoying books, being able to put coats on and shoes on and fasten them, washing faces and hands, enjoying drawing/paint. So many now turn up never having done so many basic things. They see increasing numbers who just can't do basic things because no one teaches them. They are not expecting them all to do everything perfectly of course but so many come with very few basic skills.
They have a little boy in Reception who is a terror- shouts if he can't have his own way, swears, pushes adults and children out of the way, had never had a book, is late every day because his mum doesn't get up in time to get him into school. He is very overweight and will only eat rubbish food. He takes anything he likes. His mum (no dad on scene) has social services involvement. Her behaviour is like his. Her father comes up to the school in tempers shouting and demanding too. They all look and behave the same way.
The school are doing their best with him but today, for example, I was talking to a member of staff in a corridor and he barrelled out of a classroom, like a rugby prop forward, shouting and swearing, stormed into the toilets kicking the door and was followed very calmly by a male member of support staff who deals with him effectively. The issue was he didn't want to do painting and craft because 'it's boring shit'. He is a bully and a thug at 4/5. It's hard to understand how a 4/5 year old can have reached this state but it's appalling parenting.

That is really heart breaking! How badly he's been failed by his parents...

Newgirlintoon · 31/01/2025 19:00

As an early years teacher I can confirm that this is all sadly true. It’s devastating and depressing in equal measure. I’ve never hated my job as much as I do now and worry terribly for the future. The overall behaviour is appallingly bad on top of the lack of basic skills.

Luddite26 · 31/01/2025 19:14

Ayup ! That reminds me of moving from North Yorkshire to West Yorkshire
We called sweets sweets here they were called spice.
Xmas decs baubles here wessle cups calling for a kid to see if they are playing out here lecking.
Never mind Americaniss in Yorkshire it's our local dialects that are alien!

ByMerryKoala · 31/01/2025 19:16

Hiccupsandteacups · 31/01/2025 18:30

We’ve got sure start centres around us (mixed area middle class and some poverty) is this something that has ended in other parts of the country? I took my small children to a free play session at one yesterday

There is one about 8 miles from here and it is accessed by invitation only. That's not really what people mean by sure start provision which was available prior to Cameron and Osborne's austerity drive.

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 19:31

@Unpaidviewer "love matters" is another great book that looks at the impact of nurture on development.

I'm loving 'hidden potential.' Grant describes people who've really gone far in life from very little talent. Effort, tenacity and determination are really important. The desire to learn is as important as the actual learning.

He does note early on that emotional regulation in the face of failure is also an important skill to keep going.

However, so many other things are stacked against both the children and often their parents too.

My cousin and his eldest son probably both have adhd but grew up in privileged families and had opportunities to find roles / careers in life that allowed them to flourish despite their hyperactivity. (Endless amounts of outdoors activities and sports.)

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 19:35

Re stairs, new schools are often built without stairs. Especially primary.

I really noticed the difference to my own fitness and hip size when I taught in a Victorian school which had many flights of steps to my classroom compared to the schools since which have all been on one level.

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 19:39

Excellent post @BogRollBOGOF

The issue re send schools though is that there's just no where near enough been built to meet the demand. And there's now no money to do so. And private send schools are sapping 70-80 k per year from LAs for each child placed there.

AnaMond · 31/01/2025 19:51

WarriorN · 31/01/2025 19:39

Excellent post @BogRollBOGOF

The issue re send schools though is that there's just no where near enough been built to meet the demand. And there's now no money to do so. And private send schools are sapping 70-80 k per year from LAs for each child placed there.

And under Tory policy, still in place, LA’s are not able to open new schools, they have to be academy/free schools. Part of the Tory policy to demolish LA’s and democratic control of schools.

We have a couple of school buildings, purpose built by the LA but no academy trust has been willing to open a special school in them.

Poppicorns · 31/01/2025 19:57

A completely predictable outcome of the lockdowns.