School readiness survey - surprising?

[GirlfromtheNorthLondonCountry]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/jan/30/some-children-starting-school-unable-to-climb-staircase-finds-england-and-wales-teacher-survey

Is it really the case that 4 year olds (absent disabilities) are unable to climb stairs or sit on the rug because of too much screen time? It just seems so extraordinary to me.

Cross-post! It genuinely amazes me that people can be so smug. 'I had these advantages, I was totally fine, I can't understand why anybody else had a hard time.' Do people genuinely lack imagination to this extent??

There was probably more stigma and it wouldn't have been socially acceptable to have your child still in nappies at school

The answer re potty training is really simple - if you isolate parents and take away all their supports, they struggle with parenting.

Since the dawn of time, each new parent has had other people around to pitch in, give a bit of advice or a boost. In 2020 you were literally banned, by law, from having another person in your house.

When I ran a toddler group, even the most disengaged parents/parents who seemed unprepared, learned from other parents, just from being around them. If you cut people off, they suffer. It is just logic.

Yeah that's fair when it comes to that I think some parents of toddlers work too much, it's quite easy to potty train a toddler you just need to dedicate time to it.
There's no easy solutions to that one though I acknowledge the economy would probably collapse if everyone became an unemployed bum on the dole like I was 😂

The working aspect is a total red herring in my view. Women have always worked - it is a total fiction that back in the 50s the street was full of readily available mothers providing care and stimulation.

My gran managed to potty train nine children. She had no parenting theories, she worked an incredible amount. What she did have was people around her.

Take people away, there is a massive impact.

I'll keep saying it because I can't believe how much damage was done and how much people want to deny it.

That's not what people are saying at all. They are saying that you have to make an effort, and that yes we know it's hard when you're working full time but that's no excuse for not making the effort.

Given many posters on here are saying that the decline in children's abilities is increasingly across the socioeconomic divide, it's not an issue that's driven solely by economic means. I mean, those kids going to swimming lessons who can't pull themselves out of the pool have families who can afford swimming lessons and manage the organisation to get the child there regularly.

You said citing covid as a reason was a 'cop-out' implying that you don't think it's a valid reason. That's why I said you don't seem to be able to imagine a situation in which having all your support taken away is devastating and has a huge impact (regardless of socioeconomic status), resulting in negative knock-on effects for your child.

DH and I often notice and feel really sad by how poor gross-motor skills young children have today. Many have never even climbed a tree. Last holiday we had at centre parcs, the amount of overweight and obese children was truly shocking.
I don't think its as simple as children being stuck on screens all day. Adjacent to our house is an enormous playing field, when we first moved here 10 years ago when DS1 was a baby.. it regularly had plenty of children playing on it. Things changed completely over covid, although DH thinks it was starting to change before that, but after the lockdowns.. basically the kids never came back. It is now known locally as 'the dog walking field' where dozens and dozens people everyday trudge drearily back and forth with their dogs. We have a large garden for our children but there is a big housing estate on the other side of the field where the gardens are postage stamps. It broke my heart last summer the couple of occasions I saw from the upstairs window, a group of kids venturing on to the field with ball before realising it was completely covered in dog shit and turning back. It makes me so angry. Mine are lucky to have all the outdoor space we have but I won't even get started on how our local beach has been ruined for us by the dog brigade. Screens, nursery, lazy parenting all are factors for sure, but there is more to it than that. How many posts do you see on here every summer complaining about noise from children playing in the garden? I don't allow mine to scream (they know not to anyway) but normal sounds of children playing should not be something anyone is complaining about. Where we live the parks are ridiculous, think one baby slide and swing. There isn't a decent sized free outdoor park even within 1.5hours drive of our house. We do live in the middle of nowhere though.

It’s very noticeable in a group setting that some children are expected to do nothing.
A big part of brownie and guide trips is now supporting and encouraging eg ordering, paying, pouring own drink, responsibility for own belongings, using public transport. Often the ones that don’t come as mum thinks too young would be ones who would benefit the most.

+1 agreeing that with middle class families it often seems more like the issue stems from children being overprotected, overscheduled and simply not allowed to do things.

• When my now 7yo DC was in Reception I used to observe children being carried for the two minute walk from the school car park to the classroom door. No, these were not children with SEN.
• Children not allowed to get messy/pick up things outside/do Playdoh or painting because the house has to be immaculate
• 6yos who do multiple extracurricular activities but never just go for a walk or to the park...
• Panic over children going somewhere alone or being left at a club without a parent or having to get themselves organised etc. (I see this with my 12yo's peers)

DC wasn't in nursery 5 days a week but again the no physical activity in nurseries is not something I recognise from our experience. I did purposefully choose a nursery in a rural setting with lots of outdoor space. And then, on nice evenings, at the end of each nursery day either DH or I went into the park opposite nursery and played with them for another 30 minutes or so before going home.

Just because you work doesn't mean you don't do these things and I guess just because you don't work it doesn't mean you do these things. We all have a job to parent regardless as to whether or not you do paid work outside of the home but I think some people choose not to or are unable to and sadly that impacts their child.

Well, if you want to bring dogs into it, I suspect all of my dogs, from puppies, to older rescued have benefitted from better ownership/training than a lot of children have from poor parenting. House trained puppies in less than a few days, well behaved and socialised in a few weeks. Dedication, time, commitment and a good understanding of what’s required to raise a well adjusted, healthy, pleasant creature. If we didn’t think we could achieve this, we wouldn’t take one on. It’s a bloody sad world when some pets get better care than children do.

I hope teachers don’t assume my child uses Americanisms because of screen time. One of his parents is American!

🤣🤣🤣

(I think it was a different poster who said Covid was a cop out)

But all support wasn't withdrawn - there is a huge amount of resources available online. And covid lockdown was for a relatively short period of time.

I think Covid might have been a contributing factor, but it's far and away from being the only one, and I don't think it's the main one.

That's fair enough I did send my child to pre school part time from about 3 I found one with a massive garden where they let the kids play out all the time but most pre schools at least in my town either had no garden or it was a tiny concrete slab where they wouldn't let them out if it rained etc. also did the going to the park for hours afterwards but I lived in a house share with other assholes (I mean "people") a lot of the other parents seemed to rush off home.
I think having too much money and not enough sense doesn't help some people because they have nice houses they don't want to leave and buy their kids all the latest iPads. Idk just a theory obviously being too poor can't afford good food for muscles growth is a big issue too.
Kind of rambling here but just thought I'd add some more ideas

Potty training was different with cloth nappies. Children were uncomfortable so knew wet and it was less hassle to potty train than wash/dry terry nappies.
Plus the stigma of having an older child in nappies. Bulky nappies were visible. Is he clean yet was how it was phrased.

Run round in the park at the weekend.
Yes I do appreciate it is really difficult bringing up children these days.

A PP on another thread was talking about her intention to declutter and was particularly worried about having 4 shelves of books. It seems for some people books are no longer an important part of life

Made me feel better- I've been feeling like a bad mum because my son appears to sleep in a sea of books because it's harder to tidy them away from a mid sleeper! They seem to stack up at his feet and around his head till I do something about it...

I think four is far too young to start school. I’ve had two start at 4 in England and one start at 5 in Scotland. The 5yr old learned to read and write far more quickly. It hadn’t benefitted my older two to go to school a year earlier.
That being said, even at pre school for my oldest, he was as his older siblings when they started school, fully toilet trained. We had already done what I considered normal, reading and drawing and colouring and art and crafts. Writing, counting. Parks.
And yes some access to screens too.

It’s a balance isn’t it?

I’ve worked in a couple of schools recently (never again - the behaviour of some children is truly shocking & it was impossible to keep everyone safe, especially the staff.)
Lots of children weren’t toilet trained & they are at a huge disadvantage because they are taken out of lessons regularly to have nappies changed, their peers notice & it’s generally not nice for them.
Lack of communication skills is the other huge problem with many children unable to speak clearly (not just those with SEN.) Again they are at a huge disadvantage & I’m not sure it’s possible for them to ever truly catch up - early years are so important.
But the most tragic thing was the children who weren’t allowed to take reading books home (ironically these were often those who needed to practice their reading the most) because the books would never be returned or would be damaged and the school just couldn’t afford to keep replacing them. Obviously the children knew who was allowed to take books home & who wasn’t. Heartbreaking.
I think it will only get worse - this generation of children will really struggle to parent when they are older.

I dread to think what kind of outcomes kids would be looking at if left to languish with the same parents who can't be arsed without possible interventions made by school for another whole year.

90 percent of brain growth happens before the age of 5. So I'm guessing most of those children will never catch up or be able to reach their true potential.

It would be really interesting to hear what the DC in this study have to say once they are parents and their own DC are in primary school.

I honestly think that each generation has their own f-ups and they will create their work and life balance around that as an collective.

90 percent of brain growth happens before the age of 5. So I'm guessing most of those children will never catch up or be able to reach their true potential.

Whilst this may be true, and the early years are incredibly important, it is entirely possible for them and adults to catch up academically. With the right determination, facilitators who understand what might pique a desire to learn, scaffold that learning effectively and develop determination and mindset, it is possible. (Adam Grant's book 'hidden potential' is a great description of the hows and whys.)

What has more of an impact on not doing so are the things that hinder social interaction, communication and self regulation skills. (Neglect, trauma etc) The second great brain growth stage, puberty, can offer opportunities to further develop all this, again with the right support, but it tends to be harder. Not least as that right support is so hard to find.