Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

The Happy Feet Company has nothing on the sock-puppeting going on in this thread ....

Anecdotal it may be, but if true it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

It's quite clear where the seats of power and privilege are, and who is protecting who. When that falls down there is also the option of further nepotism and failing upwards. It happens a lot in the public sector, too.

This is part of the reasonwhy the exemption for military families exist, as they can have little control over leave dates.

It really doesn't take much imagination to understand that other industries

I work in a school and I do think it's weird how obsessed schools are with children taking time off. I understand that it's different for vulnerable children etc, but if the child is safe and looked after at home, surely it should be up to parents to decide what to do with them?
The only thing I object to is when a child has low attendance for whatever reason, and the parents try and blame the school when they haven't made the expected progress.

How does the Scottish school absences compare to English? Scottish schools don't fine for holidays taken during term times.

Well, if that's how you feel, you've chosen to home educate, surely? Or does school free childcare only have to 'fuck off' about things you don't agree with or want to have your own way about? Your attitude is very telling...

The bank guy was just a chancer. Thought he was right, but was like so many others who come at this from business.

Story definitely true.

I don't think the public sector is that similar.

You can start asking me questions when you've answered mine.

Not sure why you'd frame this around packages though? Those would actually be one of the easier things to control. Which is why the market would move to people booking their travel and accommodation separately instead, and the latter wouldn't be under the control of the UK government. If you think the accommodation providers in Spain don't charge direct bookers more in peak season than not, I have a bridge to sell you.

'She doesn't get it' meaning she doesn't agree with you, presumably?

Disagreeing with someone and 'calling out bs' aren't the same thing.

Nice personal attacks on OP, btw.

Once you've posted under a given username, these days, you can't switch to a different one on that thread, it's not physically possible. And I very much doubt anyone is going to the bother of running between different devices in different locations registered under different IP addresses just for this thread. So I'd say sock-puppeting isn't that likely, personally.

We took DS out for 2 weeks in primary and he didn't suffer at all. (He was bright though and already got in with the 11+).

In 6th form many people (not DS) would just skip school to revise at home

I will state it in a more obvious way. The package companies are most likely not passing on costs. They can be subjected to regulations.

The other mind shift is to consider that big business, commercial concerns, holiday companies might not act in the consumers interests without regulation. We shouldn't support being exploited.

School/education isn't to blame.

I think the attendance police are too much. It obviously didn't matter to unions when schools closed for striking. Attendance is only important when their targets are effected.

I agree that striking can undermine the importance of education. It should be an option, but used very, very sparingly.

I don't see how striking undermines it. The attendance review are from government, teachers I know think it's ridiculous. If it was left to the schools I doubt it would be as draconian. Striking was as a result of what the government was doing to the teaching profession. The two are very different.

My child's primary school get certificates for attendance, and my child always gets bronze (above 95%). Reasons for not having 100 percent have included dentist and doctor appts (getting a dentist appt on a Saturday is impossible here) and a family funeral. It's ridiculous this pressure to be 100 percent. My eldest secondary school used to award people who had 100 percent attendance with a theme park day. This is why people send their kids in when they are unwell.

Because when it happens, schools shut, which makes it seem to parents as though the odd missed day of school doesn't matter for strikes, so why should it matter for holidays? This is literally what parents say. And I can understand it tbh. A missed day is a missed day, whatever the underlying reason. Covid also did a lot of damage in this respect as others have pointed out.

You're very obviously failing to state how the UK could control accommodation providers who aren't subject to our laws.

Package holidays could theoretically be subjected to regulations, as long as people started off from the UK. So the model would cease to be offered in the way it is now, in order for companies to get around it. There's sod all that could be done about package holidays involving UK customers who'd travelled somewhere else to begin it. The UK government would have no jurisdiction over packages that began in French or Irish airports, and these packages would of course be more expensive at peak time.

There's also nothing that could be done about non-packages. A family who previously began their package holiday at Birmingham Airport in August but no longer had that option and instead had to purchase the flights and resort separately would still end up paying peak price for the resort. And it would still be cheaper if they took the kids out and went in September instead.

You've also not explained yet why you think this would be a popular government policy when the majority of the population actually benefit from school holiday peak pricing. This is a democracy, so governments get penalised when they fuck things up.

YANBU.
take your kids out if you want but don’t lie that it’s cultural enrichment if it isn’t.

When the whole class is out because of a strike the damage is not as bad as when one child is out and the rest of the class crack on with the curriculum.

Yep.

I supported the strikes, but there's no point pretending there weren't people saying this.

@Superhansrantowindsor I would argue it's worse. Because that's 30 students to a teacher that needs to catch up, especially as they all work at different levels. So you will need to squeeze the missed lessons and factor in the time to help those who need extra support. Co.pared to one child....

There's no point of contact with reality here. Packages don't work like that and independent travel doesn't either.

September is still just about peak and a parent who would take their kids out of school at the beginning of a school year is almost on a par with someone who books one in the middle of SATs/GCSEs etc.

Although I suppose actually if the whole school is closed the kids aren't missing out on what all the other kids in the class are learning in the same way as they are if they're on holiday in term time. But regardless, it's about perception isn't it.

How do packages and independent travel not work like that? Be specific. Tell us precisely why.

You've also not told us anything about how the UK government could actually make any of this work, nor how they'd actually be incentivised to when most of the population benefit from the status quo.

What you think of people removing their DC isn't the point either. And September is cheaper than August in Spain, hence the incentive exists and would continue to do so given that accommodation would still be more expensive in summer whatever the UK government did.

It is, especially given that in many schools some kids were in and some weren't. Had unfortunate connotations of the 2021 lockdown. A problem existed, some DC got the full brunt of it while others access to schooling remained the same.

I think sometimes people confuse their belief that it's unfair for teachers to get blamed for the strikes with whether they did get blamed. I'm very much in the camp of they had no choice, but not everyone was.