Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Can we stop blaming parents for wanting to take their children on holiday! FFS parental rights anyone. It’s not as if most parents have the cash to holiday excessively anyway! Two weeks is hardly a big deal.
Can also consider the lost learning due to lack of teachers ! Supply teachers are often baby sitters and be frequent in my area.

So it’s just jealousy and spite…
not much better

^ Yup.

This is 100% how I feel. Our children are very controlled and we are very controlled as families, our lives are controlled by school. If you are so much as 1 minute late and this occurs a few times that term , there is meetings about the lateness and judging , that your children need to be here on time or it can be reported to local authorities. I understand children need an education , but it's so much stress and pressure and very regimented, kids with mental health issues and behavioural issues , single parents expected to work 30hours and have children in breakfast and after school clubs. I thought about homeschooling but as a single parent I can't

And where does the magic money come from to employ this job sharing teacher? And most teachers who job share do so so they can look after pre school age children, they aren't magically going to ditch their children to look after ours 😂

With the increase in SEN and the budget cuts, every class and every teacher is stretched to the max. And as you said 30 is too much, our school only has 2 classes per year group, my daughters year 4 class couod only join the other year 4 class to receive age appropriate learning, and there would be nearly 60 of them in a class, which is obviously way too many.

Of course they do, these are usually on a weekend

All travel to anywhere can be an educational experience. Holidays also bring other benefits, the chance to be active, swim in the sea, meet other people. I strongly dislike the idea that these experiences should be closed to children who's parents cannot afford peak prices. It's also a bit much to legislate against the rights of parents to allow their children to miss two weeks of school within a system that allows them to decide not to send them at all if they feel they can offer them a better 'educational experience' at home.

We are, realistically, going to have to find some more magic money to employ teachers and other school staff. Or we will have to manage without them. Not the point of the thread, I know, but a fact nonetheless. It is not possible to opt out of the way supply and demand work.

But the teachers, like the OP, is judging. That's what the comment meant.

It's not schools. Ofsted will downgrade a school with poor attendance. A few children off for a week or two makes a huge dip in attendance figures. These are government led targets, not ones created by individual schools. Schools have no choice but to push/improve attendance.

Teachers don't always judge, as has been seen on this thread, some teachers say they are ok with it, but the consistent message is 'please don't treat us like we are stupid and lie to us, when your child comes back with a tan it's pretty obvious'

My daughters teacher gave us her blessing when I took them out for 2 days, I explained why it was so important and unavoidable and they authorised it. I knew I was doing the right thing and would have done it authorised or unauthorised, but I gave them the courtesy of being honest, which they respected.

Ultimately, if you feel strongly enough that you have made the right choice for your child, you wouldn't lie, you would own it and deal with the consequences. People can judge my choices all they want, I don't give 2 hoots, I am able to defend them to anyone who I need to. If you can't defend your choices confidently and openly, they probably aren't the right choices.

What a bizarre post.

My kids know how to prioritise and not be mindless little worker bees.

Honestly who cares if someone lies about why they are off or not? Absolutely no one has to give a big speech on being able to confidently defend their choices. I'd confidently defend the choice to lie if I wanted, that's no one elses business.

I don't think you're following my point, at all.

I'm telling you how it works in another country, which is doing better than yours. The UK is a really is a rich country, the fact that you won't properly fund your education system while lauding it as the most important thing ever is the point.

You're so het up about everything. My dds teacher is off today. There's no spare available, so they have been broken into small groups and have gone to different classes. Most not the same year as them. Which works really well, but you can't even imagine it, as you're so incredibly rigid about how teaching works.
Like I said, start by unclenching. I'll renin you again that we rank higher in every available metric, with longer holidays, shorter days, no fines, no authorisation for absence, and teachers have lives they can actually live. It's really not as hard as youre making it.

Absolutely, we just had ofsted. The headteacher had to explain in detailsevery child whose attendance was under 95% - what they had tried to improve attendance, what they planned to do to improve it, child by child, for 20+ children. And the inspector didn't downgrade based on this as they could see the school had gone above and beyond to support attendance, but recognised that some was beyond their control.

But the inspector on their previous ofsted penalised them for poor attendance and downgraded them to 'requires improvement'. Imagine the impact on the mental health of school staff who had worked so hard to acheive a good ofsted, to not have it recognised due to termtime holidays. Several good teachers left after that, the head resigned and it took 3 years for the school to recover, at one point nearly closing. So to each person it's just 1 holiday, but cumulatively it has a huge impact.

Rightly or wrongly this is the system we are working with. We can all say 'the system is wrong blah blah blah', but that is what we have, and moaning about it won't change it.

How is it jealousy and spite exactly to call it bollocks when parents claim that all-inclusive holidays in the sun are deeply educational and therefore vital? I'm not judging the holidays, I'm not even judging taking the kids out in term time, I'm specifically judging the lying about it.
I feel like you're deliberately missing my point in order to attack me.
For what it's worth, I'm not jealous. We'll go abroad again when we can afford it but we all actually really loved our last caravan holiday in the UK. We were lucky with weather which helped but I also find airports and the whole rigmarole of going abroad fairly stressful. I don't feel the urge to do it every year.
If I didn't work in a school I'd be reluctant to take my child out in term time as, like a PP said, I'd be paranoid that she'd then end up getting poorly another time which would equal lots of time off, if that makes sense. Basically I don't think I'd want her to miss school unless she absolutely had to, but I won't hand on heart say I wouldn't take her our a couple of days before the end of term as I just don't know.

And I don't think you are following mine. This is a discussion about the English school system, bringing another system into the discussion is completely irrelevant. Our children cannot just be 'spread out', many have specific SEN which mean their needs cannot just me met by shoving them into another class.

I agree with you, our education system is far from perfect, it needs massive reform. But in a system which is struggling, taking children out makes it even harder for the schools, making a difficult situation even worse, how is that helpful?

I hope the day comes when our children's education is so good that they can afford to miss time from school. Private schools acheive more in less time because they are not battling the same challenges as state schools around behaviour and complex needs.

It's not in the slightest bit irrelevant, but I give up,since you're unwilling to get with the point made 🤷‍♀️

Exactly their our kids not the schools! It's so controlling trying to tell parents what to do with their own kids

Did you have too many days off school? - you cannot spell properly.

They're instead of their.

If you feel like that, why not just homeschool them? Then you can do what you want with them.

So true! More people should be taking their kids out in term time and refusing to pay their bullshit fines! I took mine out for a week and just rang up everyday and said they were ill. Am I fuck asking permission or paying a fine to take my own children on holiday. They are mine not theirs!
What do they do with all this money they get from fines anyway? Does anyone know?!

Oh fuck off it was a mistake as I typed it fast. I can spell perfectly thank you!

Lovely way to speak to someone.

And I do what I want with them already. See my last post. I took them out for a week and I didn't ask permission nor did I pay any fines. Oh and my daughter is top set in everything.
They didn't seem to care about childrens education when they shut the schools over a cold for half a year did they or when they sent whole groups of children home as they had been in contact with someone who had a cold!

There's an increasing thread running through this site of 'different = bad'. When did our society become this myopic - or has it always been that way and I just didn't notice?

Go AI and you can still get out and about, mix with the locals, go sightseeing and exploring and immerse yourself in the local culture. No one has to lie about on a plastic sunlounger or fight for an umbrella on the beach everyday unless they want to (and although it's not for me, as a complete retreat from stress in this way I 'get' the appeal).

For next year I've planned a long road trip around the Glacier and Yellowstone National Parks. Fun - and absolutely my 'thing' - but labour intensive. You could call cruising 'AI' and I've done enough of those - low maintenance and you get to see as many places as possible on one holiday from the comfort and luxury of a ship. Sometimes I CBA to sit on planning tools for hours and want someone to do the hard work for me. Why are these things viewed so rigidly? And if people want different things from their holidays than we do from ours, why do people care?

As for taking DC out of school, I've done it precisely once (and for a day only). But I told the teachers straight up it was for a holiday, and after an intensely stressful period DH and I had decided the family needed it. They were fine, and very supportive.

And here, OP has a point. Own your decisions. This is not one I habitually make, and as to whether the circumstances are exceptional or otherwise, that is for me to judge. I am not asking for the school's 'permission'. I'm informing them, as a courtesy, of our decision. We are still the parents.

Well you're not lovely either picking on a silly mistake that I made from typing fast and not checking it before I posted.