NHS Jobs - Fed Up - Career Progression....

[NameChangedForThis1985]

Apologies it will be a long one:

Currently working in a Band 8a role in the NHS. It's a fairly niche job which provides operational support rather than clinical input or operational management and is generic across all specialties/areas rather than in a department such as IT, Finance, HR, etc. (This is relevant).

I've been looking to move on for a while now - I don't hate my role but I've been doing this type of work for 8 years now, and I'll be honest it's a bit boring and 'Groundhog Day' - I'd really like to progress and get my teeth into something new and more challenging. So I've been looking for a role at an 8b level. There's no 'senior' version of my role or similar in my Trust, so it's not just a case of 'stepping up'.

The issue is that due to my line of work I have progressed to this level with very little operational/staff management. I have been responsible for a team of staff in the past, but this was quite a while ago, and I don't feel it fits the 'significant experience' often required for this type of role - although it's frustrating that this is decided subjectively rather than given a specific timeframe (but that's another issue entirely). Without a specific profession as outline above, my options are limited to:

Service Manager: very operationally focused and lots of management so not sure I'd meet the criteria - also the normal route for clinical staff to progress into.

Other: I've only seen one role advertised in this time that would fit my criteria. Basically the senior version of my role but in another Trust. The advert was closed early as apparently there were 'too many applicants' - but it's clear from everyone I've spoken to that someone was already earmarked for the role.

I'm doing shadowing of senior staff, working through all of the CMI qualifications, have enrolled on all internal development courses that are available, and have tried putting my name out there. But absolutely no luck whatsoever! Any tips at all for what to do...

I'm not horrendously unhappy where I am but I'm just so bored, and yes the extra money would be nice given I'm a single woman with a family-sized mortgage and a penchant for nice holidays! I just wish someone would take a chance on me, but I'll never be lined up for the role before applying...

No real words of wisdom but I was interested to read your post. I'm in a band 4 role (admin) and there are few opportunities to progress. I too have enrolled on a few internal courses to try and expand my knowledge but it's hard to find the experience or the right pathway to progression.
It's just interesting to hear that even as an 8a you are experiencing the same challenges that I am!!
I have applied for a position at a higher level so we will see what comes of that....
Anyway good luck!

I'll be honest, I always found it easier to progress until now - I started as a Band 5 straight out of university, but there were quite a few B6 and 7 jobs around. I think things have changed a lot since then though!

Good luck, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Just checked NHS jobs out of interest and there are no 8b vacancies which don't require a clinical background. There are, however, several 8a jobs that don't, although they have specific training/experience requirements. You could consider moving sideways, expanding your skills and experience and then looking to see what 8b roles come up in a couple of years?

In my field (Project Management) we have people coming in from all sorts of different areas and they not only give us the benefit of their experience but they gain valuable skills and experience from us. We have a number of 8a roles but only a few 8bs, so understandably those don't really come up as vacancies. That is likely to be the case for most 8b roles I imagine. You could consider moving outside the clinical environment into the CCG or other NHS administrative organisation perhaps?

Can you go sideways first ?
Matron as 8a then up from there ?

Could you look for a sideways secondment to get some line manager experience?

@DilemmaDelilah I have an alert set up for all NHS organisations within a 50 mile radius, the non-clinical 8a roles only come up very sporadically and they are usually secondments - I've already left my current role twice to take up fixed-term secondments so they won't let me go again.

@notatinydancer I'm not clinical.

@Twoshoesnewshoes unfortunately I've already done two secondments out with this current role and they won't let me do another - that said, there are no 8a ops management roles in my Trust anyway. Ward/Team Managers are a B7 and the next step up is the 8b Service Manager.

Any nearby trusts you could try ? Our service manager s are B7s

I hear you on being stuck in an NHS role, I’m clinical but have a similar issue, niche and senior roles are few and far between, and the pitiful salary difference between top of 7 and 8a stings!
Would you consider undertaking something like Mary Seacole? It’s 6 months and is a commitment, but would potentially give you the edge to talk about line management from a theoretical pov even if you don’t have direct reports currently. Even to be able to say you’re working towards it would show that you are open to expanding knowledge and skills?
Personally I would go straight for that rather than Edward Jenner as quite a bit of the EJ content is repeated albeit at a faster pace!

I can't take a drop in pay unfortunately but yes I have an alert set up for all jobs within a 50 mile radius.

@PreVerbalGerbil I'm currently doing the Mary Seacole - due to finish later this year

Many trusts and UHB have recruitment freezes on.

Mine is £38 million off target already

Unfortunately there are too many 7/8a/8b people in the NHS without any clinical or even technical knowledge and come up with stupid ideas for change without consulting anyone who actually works with patients and they then accuse clinicians of being awkward and stubborn.
Glad to hear they are cutting back on non-clinical posts.
The admin/coordinator in our department came up via a clinical path and part of their JD is to do lunch cover on the clinical side. Doctor's rotas are much better when a clinical person is involved to check and make amendments.
One of the London trusts posted online about their wonderful facilities including rest areas for the admin staff - it went viral pretty quickly and the medics who work 13 hour shifts were fuming

Wow. Just wow.

Is it complaints or governance?
There's only so far you can go sadly.
Just keep looking, would you do interim posts?

NHS professionals?

@fiftiesmum lots of senior clinical people who can't string a sentence together or present information.

Luckily they have people like the OP propping them up.

Thank you, I may not be clinical but I've still spent seven years at uni and 16 years climbing the career ladder to get to where I am!

No it's neither of those roles - it's a planning and performance type role which I'm aware doesn't exist in the majority of Trusts (a lot of time it's either Finance or Business/General/Service Managers who do my role).

I can't take a temporary role as I would need the financial security (single with a large mortgage) and unfortunately wouldn't be able to take on another secondment as they've already let me go three times!

Are you also looking at commissioning roles in ICBs? Granted a lot are or have had to make a lot of reductions but there are jobs in our area. Appreciate that may not be the case elsewhere.

Yes my alert on NHS Jobs would cover ICBs as well - there are occasionally jobs that come up with them but they are always temporary. The only permanent one I've applied for so far (8b) I was put on the reserve interview list for - but that was 18 months ago now, during which time I've done a lot more development activities, the Mary Seacole, etc.

One of the two ICBs in our area is currently undergoing a restructure, but as you say it's expected roles will be removed rather than added!

Do you currently work for an NHS trust? If so, have you looked at Public Health Wales/ England jobs instead? I'm a clinical B7 working g for the NHS (nurse qualified for 20 years this year). My friend works for Public health. She joined 2 years ago and is an 8a, non clinical. There appears to be more non clinical roles of higher grades in Public health.

Yes I do - and I have an alert set up for all NHS Jobs (regardless of employer) within a 50 mile radius

If you are not horrendously unhappy but feeling unchallenged, how about looking for extra responsibilities that get you experience ? Mentoring junior staff ( also a way of getting staff management experience ) or volunteering for a local charity as a Trustee. Both could help your CV whilst stretching you . I am also non clinical in a senior NHS role and it can feel
like hens teeth waiting for the right opportunity to come up.

I'm trying to do as much as I can in terms of development opportunities whilst still in my current role, but as you say the issue is just that there are no jobs available. In my team we don't have any junior staff but I've offered to do some supervision with some junior clinical staff (haven't been taken up on the offer as yet though).

Unfortunately in terms of volunteering I just wouldn't have the time - I already work over and above my contracted hours, plus I have a second job on a weekend, am studying and have a chronic illness which means I need a fair bit of rest!

Chief exec role ?
Maybe just enjoy the role and great pay 😂 and be thankful you’re not toiling on the wards like most of us ! Not helpful I appreciate.

Yeah I would like to be Chief Exec one day potentially - who knows?!

Just because I'm not clinical doesn't mean I don't work hard or put the hours in. Majority of the senior managers in my Trust used to work on the wards so if you want the 'great pay' and not having to 'toil' - you know what to do.

I remember that. The admin staff had been moved out of the main hospital and it had been a tough sell so they created rest areas to soften the blow then celebrated this… when clinical colleagues had nothing like it. Very poor communications planning!

However, as a band 7 who has worked in a role across all areas, I really believe I do have a good understanding of clinical perspectives, but I know the kind of manager you mean. Please don’t lump us all together!

I’m unable to get to the 8a level. Very few in providers and ICBs say they want new approaches then recruit someone from another ICB over me because although I “interviewed brilliantly, they have existing experience.” My 10 years experience and dedication in one organisation is seen as a negative as it’s not varied. The person they recruited had experience from different nhs areas but only because she was awful and moved sideways every 2 years once she’d pissed everyone off… but her varied experience is seen as a plus. Sigh.

I’m bored and want to get my spark back, doing what I love, but need someone to give me a chance. Middle age women don’t seem very appealing it seems 😭

Thank you for this post. Although I'm not technically clinical either my undergrad and masters are actually in clinical subjects (not nursing/medicine) but I never followed up with professional registration (too late now as would mean a huge pay cut). I've also worked in the NHS for 16 years in a variety of environments so would also say I have good clinical knowledge despite not having the qualifications. My current role also means I spend a lot of time around our patients and on our wards too.

I get it. I have been in my b8a role for 5 years. I am in development. Previously spent 27 years clinical, but in a niche role where I am not clinical but on projects. I have reached the ceiling unless something changes.

I am looking at moving to nhs England but worry about the security. It’s my natural move but again no jobs.

I do work on projects with the regional team to stretch me and get my face known. Could you do something like that?