To think UK jobs are on the whole badly paid and IDK how a lot of people are managing

[AnonymousBleep]

I know there are some industries/roles where the money is good, ie tech and finance, but roles in the civil service, public sector, marketing and creative industries are absolutely woeful. I was thinking about moving (as haven't had a payrise in three years) but there are hardly any jobs in my sector worth applying for, and I can see from Linkedin that they've all had hundreds of applicants anyway. The average salary is abour £30K but that'll be bumped up by including London salaries - which actually don't go far as London is insanely expensive. £30K (roughly £2K a month after tax) doesn't go far at all either in the rest of the South East - especially as the cost of living is still continuing to soar. Everything is expensive - went into Superdrug yesterday to get some toiletries for my teens and was shocked at how expensive cleansers etc are now (just as a random example), and food seems to go up every week. How are people managing?

Am I wrong? Maybe Mumsnet has given me a weird lens on this as there seem to be a lot of very well paid people on here!

Another, small, tiny example - arond here, paper boys are paid £40 for a week. So that's £8 per day (ETA - that's the max but I think the lowest is about £35 per week) From what I can tell, that's the exact same amount they've been paid for the last 5 years or more. So even at the very low end, the increases dont' reflect the reality of increased costs.

What are entry level salaries for nurses, midwives, teaching assistants? I bet you that those salaries are not significantly higher than they were 10 years ago.

As well as top up benefits, there are people who can manage on relatively low salaries because they're not as exposed to the worst of living costs. Housing in particular. There are tens of millions of people in the UK who own outright, have SH or have a mortgage on a property that they were able to buy for a lot cheaper than it is now.

If all these people were suddenly stuck with private renting or new buyer type prices, we'd have a much bigger problem than we do. But these things are nowhere near evenly distributed across the population, with age and region the biggest factors.

Yes, the Resolution Foundation did some research on this and were making the point that the increasedc ostin mortgages as people have to remortgage would add billions. I'll see if I can find it.

Here's one piece on the cost of housing here vs other OECD countries:
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/housing-outlook-q1-2024/

And here's 'one about interest rate impact....
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/press-releases/mortgage-crunch-deepens-with-15-7-billion-repayments-rise-now-on-track-to-bite-by-2026/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

YANBU, i've been helping a friend look for jobs and I'm shocked at how many are paying around £25k for roles that require a fair amount of skill. I'd like to say we live in an area with cheap housing but.....

@MsMarch

I've just re read your initial post and although you may feel hard done by, you sound like you're in quite a privileged position, particularly if you are supporting your family on your one wage.

Food is not dirt cheap any more. It used to be but salaries haven't risen in years and food, energy and house prices (all our basics for survival) have shot up massively.

I am. Absolutely. I'm well aware of that.

Doesn't change the fact that I do feel stresed about money and that I don't consider, at my level of income and expereince and industry, that I should struggle with money. That my "luxuries" are my children's extra curriculular activities.

I'd be delighted with £30k to be honest

Also, the point is that if I am feeling th epinch somewhat, then of course people on lower salaries are feeling it more. And it's not becuase of netflix and lattes!

@MsMarch

Can your OH get some work to ease the burden?

I understand your point but I can't see aside from increasing your income, reducing your outgoings or just managing your expectations - I don't think anything will be changing any time soon.

You said you purchased a new phone for your child and went to centerparcs. I'd say you're not doing too badly.

@MsMarch

Would you be financially better off in your home country? I am not being snarky. It's a genuine question.

This thread is abotu the fact that salaries in this coutnry do not necessarily reflect the costs. And the specifics of my particular holidays was to make the point that we're not on some trip abroad every year - I was responding to someone who was claiming she's just fine and that's because she's not wasting money on holidays or on lattes or on netflix.

I am frustrated, sure, and would like to have it easier financially, but I'm fully aware that in the bigger scheme of things I'm doign better than many. But I'm NOT doing as well as I was. And more importantly, for all the people who are at the lower end of the salary scale, their costs have gone up just as much as mine have, but they don't have the cushion. And that's where we're seing real problems.

It's the middle earning home owners who are suffering the most, they earn too much for help, don't get housing elements of UC as they own and may well have childcare costs to pay too. The low earning renters will largely be ok, the high earning home owners will largely be ok, the middle, not so much.

Not sure. Possibly. But that's irrelevant.

The point is that salaries have not gone up as much as costs have. That's just a fact. And it's true for people at the bottom end of the scale and those at the top.

In my experience people who are doing better than me despite earning the same are either locked into low interest mortgages or live in council homes with really cheap rent.

That's it really

This old guy at work was shocked when I said I'd got a good deal on my mortgage and he thought I was crazy to say that because mine is a grand a month and his is only 400 and his house his way bigger than mine.
I was also shocked when an older woman at work said her rent was only about 400 from the council again her house is way bigger than mine 😂

Not really much us younguns can do about it except ride the storm though

Yes, it's a real problem. The UK's productivity has been woeful for a decade and now we are noticeably poorer, especially compared to the US.

I'm cautiously hopeful that Labour may now be spooked enough to really drive for growth, after a bad start.

Without growth we don't get social cohesion either, because every gain muse be some other group's loss.

I saw another post about how minimum wage is now £24k per year. The thing is, a lot of salaried full time roles are actually advertised at less than that. Administrative, secretarial and PA roles as an example of traditional office work are being paid less than they would have 10 years ago.

Unless you're fortunate to have family help to give you a leg up in life, then it's really really tough.

@MsMarch

I don't think anyone is doing as well as they were and I don't think the situation is unique to the UK.

I wonder, if Labour were serious about the economy, they could incentivise using British companies to supply our industries and encourage growth in manufacturing and tech?

If you can emigrate then do, apart from an immediate improvement in living standards and possibly the weather, this is my reasoning.

This country is £2.6 trillion in debt (£40K for every person) and when all the unfunded public sector pension liabilities are taken into account that true debt is nearer £5.5 trillion which brings us to a debt to GDP ratio of 225%, this puts us is in a position worse than Greece found itself at the height of its problems. In addition the servicing costs of existing UK current national debt is rising sharply as the due dates on the current bonds expire and the UK has to renew more of these loans at far more expensive level (a bit like your 10 year fixed rate mortgage coming to an end and having to remortgage at current rates). Now, if the UK can grow its GDP substantially over the next 15 years this poses less of a problem. However, I can't see how this can happen as free access to markets post the Brexit vote is harder and more costly. One way UK companies can compete internationally is to continue to push down on UK wages so that the increased cost of doing business in the UK is carried by us. It's very hard for the UK government to increase its revenues as there is very little left to tax. You can't tax the well off because those earning more than £100K are only 2% tax payers, you just don't get anywhere near what is needed. You can't tax businesses any more as they simply adjust their corporate structures in such a way as the sales revenue is recognised in the country that provides them with the best sweetheart deal, see Apple, Amazon, Dyson, etc.. The Government might reduce existing expenditure such as the benefits bill but there would be riots as in work benefits are now so baked into our economy that nearly everyone relies on them to survive. The UK government might mean test child support or mean test access to the state pension, this latter is very likely. All these measures are unpopular but they need to do some or all of these measures just to survive beyond the next 10-15 years, continuing as we isn't an option. The UK could 'print money' but that just stimulates inflation and we know where that took the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe. This is why Truss, Sunak and Starmer keep mentioning the UK needs to grow... if you look closely there is real terror in their eyes, they know it's coming.

I think you're right it's part of a global problem and the overall global economics post covid. But it's also true that the UK does appear to be experiencing this more than other countries. Based on research (eg the Resolution research above) and others I've seen, and anecdotal things I've seen from having family and friends in other countries. And the reasons are complex and nuanced and, of course, there's no single reason - it's a bunch of issues.

But it does worry me. Because at some point, if it doesn't start to slow down, the impact is going to be felt more and more widely and more significantly.

@MsMarch

With the huge increase in mortgage rates or even private rents, I don't know how people are affording the jumps without going into debt.

But the high streets do still seem to be busy and I don't know how people are affording it.

I also think, and i concede that I probably feel this more in a dreary January than in a sunny July that we often see reports about people in the UK being unhappy or depressed or whatever and that our overall quality of life is declining. And I think that's true too. I don't particularly care about the latest iphone or even about having a two week holiday in the sun. And I'm pleased that we can allow our children to take part in extra curricular stuff. But my god, I miss just being able to order a takeaway without a care in the world because I'm exhuasted from a long day at work and don't feel like cooking. And I'd kill to have the weekly cleaner again so that I don't have to spend my weekends mopping floors and changing bedding. And at a more serious level, I'd love to have more of a buffer for when income slows down again (we're workign onit, but it takes time to build up).

And for my friends and neighbours with less money than me, I bet they'd feel a lot happier and have a much better quality of life if they weren't worrying about whether they can afford rent or if they could move to a house slightly bigger so that their children don't have to share bedrooms or if they could even contemplate a holiday, even if it was just a few days in Norfolk. Because these things do make life better and easier and just a bit more enjoyable.