To think UK jobs are on the whole badly paid and IDK how a lot of people are managing

[AnonymousBleep]

I know there are some industries/roles where the money is good, ie tech and finance, but roles in the civil service, public sector, marketing and creative industries are absolutely woeful. I was thinking about moving (as haven't had a payrise in three years) but there are hardly any jobs in my sector worth applying for, and I can see from Linkedin that they've all had hundreds of applicants anyway. The average salary is abour £30K but that'll be bumped up by including London salaries - which actually don't go far as London is insanely expensive. £30K (roughly £2K a month after tax) doesn't go far at all either in the rest of the South East - especially as the cost of living is still continuing to soar. Everything is expensive - went into Superdrug yesterday to get some toiletries for my teens and was shocked at how expensive cleansers etc are now (just as a random example), and food seems to go up every week. How are people managing?

Am I wrong? Maybe Mumsnet has given me a weird lens on this as there seem to be a lot of very well paid people on here!

DH and I are both on decent wages

Holidays we have 1 full week and a long weekend per year - both in the uk

Cars are far from flash but needed to get to work (8 and 10 years old)

It's a long, long time since we were able to save anything, and we're actually dipping into our savings on a regular basis to cover emergencies (e.g. oven and freezer both broke within 6 months of each other)

I have absolutely no idea how other people do it

I think you’re underestimating how much costs have risen for housing / childcare.

£50k after tax and student loan = £2,956.

One nursery place inc tax free childcare etc = £1,600 pcm

£250k mortgage = £1,500pcm

That leaves you £100 a month left over.

No Netlfix, no nails - just the mortgage and childcare so you can work.

Hmmmm I don't think there's anything wrong with people working full-time jobs expecting to be able to afford foreign holidays, take out coffee or a gym membership. I work bloody hard and I'd like those things, thank you. School fees would cost more, and it's your choice to pay for that, so you just have different expectations of what disposable income is for.

However, I think it's true we have, as a society, become much more consumer-y but that's because we get the hard sell about everything every single day. We're marketed to 24/7. It's not easy to resist! And it means you feel like you're failing if you don't have all the 'stuff.'

There are a lot of well paid people on MN but equally many aren't. I agree with you, I can't imagine how the vast majority of people cope with rents and the cost of living. Being rich doesn't make you happy but the benefits of being poor are much over-rated. I tell all young people who don't know what they want to do the following. If one wants to be paid well, you need to be in the following.

(1) A job where you know exactly how much your contribution has generated in profit. Brokers, fee earners, traders, sales. You can negotiate your salary and bonus on the basis of your profit contribution.

(2) In a job where your experience and skill is scarce and the barriers to entry into the profession are high, e.g. doctors, surgeons, engineers, skilled trades even.

If you work in the UK public sector then you find yourself in the situation of having a monopoly employer who sets the tariff on what the pay is for the role and its very difficult to earn more unless you emigrate to a country with a more prosperous monopoly employer.

If you find yourself in a low skill, soft skill, low barrier to entry profession then it becomes a battleground to get decent pay. There are good companies to work for but generally the pay is minimum wage or not much more.

When I first started working, I followed my interest which was great but unfortunately it was a low demand skill and consequently paid accordingly. I can remember sitting in my rented room sick to the bottom of my stomach wondering how I was going to manage every month. It didn't take me long to work out that (even if the job didn't particularly interest me) that I needed to get into a skilled role in high demand with high barriers to entry. I retrained for 5 years and then developed experience of a further 4 years. I consider myself fortunate that I was in a position to be able to do this because I've never had to worry about money since.

I think the same OP. I earn £50k FT outside London on the south coast, my DH Earns about £60k (self employed) but we are only just managing. Large mortgage, one child in nursery, one at primary. One car, one uk holiday if we’re lucky. No other luxuries. I’d have thought over £100k household income was decent. It is not.

Nicely, @Meadowfinch I think that you are falling into that ridiculous trap of "oh, people these days just want lattes and netflix and if they didn't have those things, they'd be fine".

There's actually research somewhere out there that shows the line at which people born pre a certain year - I think it's something like 1974 - are intrinsically wealthier (on average, not always, of course). And it's to do with being able to afford to purchase property on relatively low incomes pre 2000 or something like that.

So you talk about having a nice life and all these things you don't have. But let me compare this to me:

I am 46. I have always worked and also had good jobs and good salaries, relatively speaking, although DH has always worked in much more low paying roles and so was also a SAHD for a while so our finances have largely been driven by one main earner - me.

I was lucky enough to be able to buy a cheap property in another country in my early 20s because I split the cost with my then BF (I couldn't have done it by myself). When I moved to the UK and DH and I wanted to buy, we were just about able to get a 10% deposit on a house by bringing my share of the profit I'd made on that original house to the UK. We moved out of London to afford a 3 bedroom semi-detached house with a small garden on the Surrey-London border. That house cost us the princely sum of £250k 15 years or so ago. We have never been able to afford to move but have remortgaged and released equity in order to do some significant improvements to the house such as a loft and a new kitchen (when the original one fell apart. Literally).

Although I have mostly earned well, I have been freelancing for over 10 years so income has also been erratic and there have been a couple of very dry spells. I worry a lot about my pension. Our costs have also been high as I've had to pay privately for things like life insurance as my biggest fear is that something happens to me and DH and the DC are in trouble as his earning potential is limited.

Like you, we do not have lots of foreign holidays. In fact, since Covid we have visited our home country once, and I have taken the DC away for a city break each (in Europe), as a family we have had a mid-week Centre Parcs break and we also spent a few days in Bath. That's it. Since 2020.

We do, I concede, have Netflix, Sky and amazing broadband which costs a lot - but we dn't go out much, we almost never have takeaways, we certainly aren't at the movies on a regular basis etc so Dh and I feel this is one thing that is worth spending on. I do not get coffee or drinks out that often and if I am in the City for work, I usually try to get a cheap M&S sandwich or similar. I can't remember when last I got my nails done. I get a hair cut every 6-8 weeks but colour it myself. the vast bulk of my skincare and hair products are cheap high street stuff, and the few expensive items are usually gifted to me and hoarded and used carefully. DH drives a 11 year old car, paid off, and I drive a 7 year old car that I'm still paying off after I purchased it 3 years ago.

Our children are at state school so we dont' have school fees, but we do pay for them to do activities. That is probably our biggest "non-essential" cost but it doens't feel non essential. Another cost we will probably have to meet is braces as neither of our DC's teeth are likely to meet the threshold for NHS care but we feel they should have them. If you think I'm spoiling them, so be it.

Our mortgage went up by £500 to £1800 2 years ago when interest rates went up. Our council tax has more than doubled in the time we've lived here, never mind the increased cost of gas, water and electricity. DS has ADHD and SPD and we have had to pay for all the support he's had privately, including meds - which cost us £350 per quarter plus an additional £500 a year in appointments with the doctor. I would love to pay for weight loss drugs - I've been struggling with my weight with menopause and PCOS for years, my doctor is sympathetic but there is nothing she can do and I certainly don't have the money for them. Similarly, I have a long term mild disability for which I have to have ad hoc but reglar treatement - all of which has been paid for by me since I became an adult (and was paid for by my parents before that) as I can't access long-term treatment on the NHS.

Our food bills are higher now than pre-Covid and yet I am much more careful about what we buy than I was then (admittedly, a teenage boy who does a lot sport also increases our costs! ) DH hasn't had a new phone in 4 years. I recently got a new phone as mine simply stopped working but it certainly isn't a fancy one. We DID treat DS to a new phone and that is our biggest phone expense.

So no, people like me aren't struggling because we're eating out all the time and have too much Netflix.

Edited to add: I'm also conscious that things like activities for our DC, braces for them etc are, arguably luxuries. But the point is that it's not weird for someone like me who is on a good salary to want to pay for those things. We're not throwing money around willy nilly. But I earn the same today as I did 15 years ago. And my options to increase my earnings are limited - my freelance fees are not sigifnciatnyl higher than they were and my clients certainly aren't receptive to increased costs.

We are "high" income household.

We had our first abroad holiday last year, we have a week booked this year. We don't have a gym membership, cars on PCP, we don't get gel nails, facials or other beauty treatments. No tattoos, weight loss jabs and I wfh so make food here. Both hate coffee so never buy when out, don't have Netflix, have NowTv at £6 a month and our phones are 7 years old.

Our mortgage for a bog standard home in the south east is huge, because we couldn't benefit from the increase in housing prices that the generation before us did (we're in our 40s) and instead the house prices made getting on the housing ladder extremely expensive. It's these house prices that hold us back from feeling "wealthy" but I'm so grateful that we are not destitute either. I honestly don't know how lower income families manage these days.

That’s what happens when you have a million low skilled migrants coming in. Open borders, pressure on housing, plenty of low skilled immigration, high taxes since majority of the country is either idle or net takers.

A recipe for absolute disaster. And it’s being heading this way for 30 years. There is no way back for this country.

@MsMarch There's actually research somewhere out there that shows the line at which people born pre a certain year - I think it's something like 1974 - are intrinsically wealthier (on average, not always, of course). And it's to do with being able to afford to purchase property on relatively low incomes pre 2000 or something like that.

That's the key, isn't it? Of course there are very high earners and people who've inherited money but for the majority of people born from the late 70s onwards, getting on the property ladder has been extremely difficult. People of that age or younger (generally) either have large mortgages or can't afford to buy. I am 49, working in creative industries, no financial support from parents, and I am not sure I'd ever have been able to buy a house on my own. My (ex) partner and I managed it by pooling resources and also borrowing some money off his parents. I have my own home now purely because we lived in London so when we sold there was enough money for a decent deposit when we split the equity. I don't know how my own kids will be able to afford to buy unless we help them out (which will be a challenge in itself).

The fact that the UK's wealth is so tied to the housing market is problematic in itself tbh.

My mum bought a house for £16K on a part-time dentist's salary when she split up with my dad in 1978. Different times!

It really isn't that.

@cheezncrackers

I agree that wages are higher, but so are groceries so it's all relative and if you live in the US, you also have to pay for healthcare. Housing prices are astronomical everywhere at the moment so it's not just the UK that is struggling.

@Meadowfinch

What I do not have are: multiple foreign holidays (a week in Portugal last year), gym membership, new cars on PCP, gel nails, facials, spa days, takeaways, expensive hobbies, tattoos, weekly meals out, weight loss drugs, shop-bought lunches, take out coffee, Netflix, Pay TV, the latest phone .....

Totally agree with you. The amount people spend on these things are ridiculous and then moan they are broke. These items are not essential and are luxuries.

@AnonymousBleep

However, I think it's true we have, as a society, become much more consumer-y but that's because we get the hard sell about everything every single day. We're marketed to 24/7. It's not easy to resist! And it means you feel like you're failing if you don't have all the 'stuff.'

I get it. I once got myself in a lot of debt buying things to 'keep up with the Jones's'.
Now I find It's very easy to say no. I usually think how many hours I have to work to afford 'x' and realise it's just not worth it. I don't feel like a failure.

@Anniedash

And who do you think is doing the low paid jobs that the 'idle' don't want to do?

The immigrants always get the blame.

We've got bigger problems here than in Europe though because our wealth creation is completely tied to the housing market. That's not healthy as it's not true wealth generation, it's a bubble. Hard to burst that bubble without shattering the illusion that people are doing OK for themselves. It's not such an issue in countries where renting is the norm.

Groceries aren't twice the price in the US. Yes, healthcare is a significant expense but it's not completely free in the UK any more either. Depends what the condition is, really.

Of course every country has its problems, but like someone said upthread - a lot of people just don't realise that other countries are better off than we are.

I do consider a gym membership to be essential actually. I used to run (which was nice because it was free), but don't any more because my knees aren't up to it! Walking isn't enough cardio for me. That gym is what is standing between me and being two stone heavier!

I honestly don't think Netflix and takeaway coffee etc are what are making people poorer. They're what people buy to cheer themselves up BECAUSE they are poor.

@AnonymousBleep

I definitely agree with you about the housing bubble.

I just think every country has its own problems and nowhere is idyllic.

Childcare and housing costs are obscene though.

Giving up £4.99 for netflix isn't going to make your life more affordable. There is an air of blaming people if they aren't managing financially.

@iamnotalemon I think housing and chidlcare is 95% of the problem, and why some people can’t seem to understand why others are struggling.

You’ve got two people earning £50k. One has no mortgage and their children have left home. After household bills they have about £2k to spare.

The second person bought a house in 2023 and has a £1500pcm mortgage. They have a child in nursery and the fees are £1500. They have £0 left to spare before they’ve even looked at the household bills.

Person A seems to look at Person B and go ‘they must be spending a lot on takeaways and getting their nails done’.

I'm not even on the property ladder - so i'm well aware of the difference in expenses and why some people are struggling and why some are not.

But I still stand by that some people plead poverty but have the latest iPhone, get their nails done all the time, takeaways etc etc and still think they are hard done by.

However, I was that person, so that's probably why it frustrates me so much as I got myself in a lot of debt

I work in Tech. There are plenty of jobs but there is a skills shortage. I’m contacted almost weekly on LinkedIn by in-house recruiters for Tech companies looking for people in the field in specialise in. My background is not ‘techie’ at all but I learned lots of stuff in adjacent roles that enabled me to move to a specialist one.

I would love to emigrate though (but not to the US or Singapore).

I don't know what version of tech you work in tbh! Great to hear some corners are still doing ok. In Big Tech there have been unprecedented and sustained layoffs for two years solid.

I'm thinking of Ireland.

I'm looking for work in a cheaper part of the UK, my job is public sector and the pay is the same UK wide so why should I stay somewhere expensive when I can move somewhere affordable and still have the same income? Unless the government addresses this issue and London weights public sector jobs properly throughout the south east we will see an increasing brain drain in the coming years.

Food is much more cheaper in Spain. Also, healthcare and education are free. NHS and education are so so btw. Benefits can be good and many people uses private healthcare as part of the package.

Sure, some people. But not most.

And I stand by my earlier point, that frankly, I'm highly educated in a career that I have worked hard for and yes, in an industry that is well paid. So frankly, I SHOULD be able to pay for netflix, a nice car and a daily latte without feeling the pinch and it's not weird to that that perhaps a holiday once a year would be nice on my pay. But I can't pay for any of those things. Because all of my costs have gone up and my pay has not.

I am not worrying about how I'll pay the mortgage (well, I am this week but that's a cash flow issue rather than a pay issue). But I do feel like my life was a lot easier in the past. And I don't think its strange that I feel frustrated that things I used to be able to afford easily, I can't anymore. And I think that would be true whether I earn £150k or £20k.