To think stealing food isn’t wrong if you’re starving?

[ThatPinkHedgehog]

If someone is hungry and has no means to buy food, is it really immoral for them to take what they need to survive? AIBU to think there’s a moral grey area when it comes to stealing for survival?

No just speaking from experience of living on low wages with kids.
It's nice when you can afford a nice shower gel when you have gone without any essentials.

Difficult to judge, but stealing is always taking someone else's property - and in the end, someone has to pay. (E.g. shops put up prices to cover the cost of shoplifting.)

Only heard recently that there’s a clause in the law that you get into less trouble legally if it’s proven that you stole something that was eg to stop someone starving or in need of medication

And yes, OP, I agree that it’s a grey area.

It’s hard to fathom an adult being so hungry that they need to steal. Much harder still to try and garner sympathy for such people here on MN too. But when you think about parents, normally mothers, stealing formula milk or nappies then I think most can appreciate that leniency (and compassion) should be afforded to the person stealing.

Absolutely this.
I have volunteered at a food bank and we would often have people come in needing food for their children but showing off their new tattoo, talking about a great, boozy night out, etc.
I used to work for a large high street chemist and most of our shoplifting of baby milk was not desperate parents as the media usually suggest, but was drug users and/or known regular lifters as it is easy to sell on.

I think people stealing out of desperation are as rare as hen's teeth in this country as there are accessible safety nets

@lookatthathorse Cross posted. Most who steal baby milk, nappies, etc are not stealing out of desperation but are stealing to sell on

There's been people in this country stealing tax payers money to provide useless PPE with zero consequences, plus countless other instances of crony and disaster capitalism that costs the country billions and most likely results in preventable deaths, either directly or indirectly by funelling tax away from front line services.

So considering this country has zero moral compass when it comes to bringing those people to justice and a political system that probably still facilitates the continuation of it, I have zero issue with a person stealing to feed themselves. And I couldn't give a rats arse if they smoke or have other issues that mean they don't manage their money efficiently.

I think there is no excuse for food not to be available to all in our society. Food banks need to be much better funded and readily available. At a pinch, people ought to be able to go to their GP (or the emergency or out-of-hours GP if needed) and be prescribed food if necessary.

But that's different from saying stealing is ok. As someone noted above, stealing is not a victimless crime - what if it was from a person or a small shop? What if the thief was stealing non-essentials? The victims should not lose the protection of the law due to society's failings.

Turns out my mother was wrong, apparently 2 wrongs do make a right.

Maybe your mother should have taught you about getting your priorities right?

That’s right. My db worked in the coop and those who stole fell into 2 main categories:

1. those stealing meat to sell on to restaurants and cafes

2. teenagers stealing for fun or damaging things for fun.

coffee was also frequently stolen

no value bread was stolen!

Are you deliberately being obtuse. Obviously people are stealing the product to make money and it's not because they are staving.

We have a generous benefit system and healthy start vouchers for baby milk absolutely no reason to steal baby milk

I mean the OP hasn’t specified but in theory if someone is starving of course stealing is justified. But if it’s about skyrocketing levels of shoplifting in the U.K. this is organised criminal gangs, not people stealing to feed them and their starving children as others have pointed out.

But rant and rave about completely unrelated irrelevancies all you want.

Thanks for sharing that. I’m so sorry that happened to you and I hope you are in a happier place now.

clearly some people do need to steal to survive. I don’t think stealing for survival is wrong.

Are you deliberately being thick?

Of course people steal things that are of high value to sell on. Nobody is disputing that. But you’ve chosen to add to a discussion about people stealing because they’re actually starving by talking about your local CoOp’s Lurpak problem. Can you not see that that’s not relevant? If you can’t then I can’t help you.

I was thinking, is this jean Val jean

Stealing is always immoral. Whether there are valid mitigating circumstances is another matter.

I agree. Homeless folk sitting outside shops always have enough to eat. People buy them stuff all the time. They want money for drugs.

Hehe first thing that came to my mind too!

Well that's a bit of a strawman because the OP didn't say should criminal gangs shoplifting be a grey area did she. Makes it an easier hypothetical to answer if you pretend that's what was asked.

And I can certainly say I do not have any qualms with a starving person shoplifting to feed themselves, regardless of their personal circumstances and give examples of much more heinous crimes we allow to go unpunished for why I think there is no real justice in this country.

Stealing is always wrong but there definitely is a grey area when someone steals in order to eat and/or feed their children. I certainly wouldn't want them prosecuted, I'd want to help them or for them to be helped.

@ThatPinkHedgehog

OP, I can remember a furious row here on Mumsnet about 4 years ago, wish I had kept the thread. An original poster had witnessed a security pile on at a local supermarket, when the culprit had stolen sandwiches, and the theme was, if someone steals food, should they be punished. The general replies were that they should be just allowed to leave with " food to go" as long as it wasn't a trolley full of food ! Then someone commented with (I'm paraphrasing) "well what about all the poor people who do not have a flat screen TV, should they be allowed to take one home for free?" and "why have checkouts in the supermarkets?"
Thing is, where do you draw the line?

I’m sure you can dear. Have a good night.

Guessing you believe Reform would be the best thing for our country 🙄