It's not A&E that's the problem - it's people!!!

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Was in A&E last night. Busy east London Hospital...
3 hours in and out. Staff amazing. Tests done etc... Facilities (not pretty) but fine. Had a seat. Seen in privacy and treated with respect and care...

However the people waiting were awful.. one woman kept coming in a racially abusing the reception staff... security kept taking her out. Stopping the staff from getting on with their jobs.

Entire family (6 of them) eating a curry and having very loud family time up the back of the waiting room - so loud that the Dr.s calling people's names were not being heard... causing delay.

2 homeless people sleeping across multiple chairs (not begrudging them a warm spot to sleep.. but they should not have to be there.)

2 woman came in just to charge their phones up!

It's not the NHS that is on its knees it's society. And A&E is the harsh reflection of society!

I do think social care is a major issue. When we were on our marathon wait there was a lovely elderly lady who was clearly a frequent flyer. The staff seemed to know her. She almost certainly had dementia or a similar cognitive impairment as she made the same comments on repeat for several hours. A few of us waiting in Majors took it in turns to chat to her otherwise she was constantly calling the nurses. She probably didn’t need to be in A&E but she was complaining of pain so her carers felt obliged to bring her. Cases like hers need a better community care based solution.

When my appendix ruptured, I wasn't in and out in 3 hours (as I was admitted), but was in and diagnosed in 3 hours, on a ward in 4. Central London. Amazing care. Some of these experiences sound very harrowing, and each one will be different.

It really depends where you live. I've been in and out in under 2 hours. Twice. Once with a broken wrist (referred by out of hours GP), and once when my mum had a massively painful eye after an eye injection (referred by 111).

The biggest timewasters I've seen are drunks.

Hasn't been my experience this year... and it wasn't most of the patients who were at fault. They were mainly very vulnerable elderly people too ill to make a fuss.

Took 12 hours for my grandmother who'd broke her hip to be seen to and get off a trolley in the corridor.

But worst of all was another elderly relative just 3 months ago in another local hospital. 14+ hours on a trolley before he was properly seen and told he was actually in his final hours of life.

All time that could have been spent being comfortable and saying goodbye to his loved ones if the A+E had got their act together.

Do you feel better typing that? Nobody questioned or complained. You think a teenager that was subsequently admitted to hospital for over 3 weeks should manage over 15 hours on a couple of chocolate bars (that is how long we were in A&E and other bits of the hospital before he was admitted)? OK then. Just as well none of the people there actually agreed with you. But do carry on with your righteous indignation if it makes you feel important.

Hate to tell you but cat scratches can be serious. Obviously clean thoroughly first but they can turn nasty quite quickly

I went to A and E last April as directed by 111, horrendous headaches....it was a total war zone, east london, whipps X hospital....several crack addicts running riot being chased by police, the majority of people waiting were romanian gypsies...entire families of them...wailing and screaming to get attention and queue jump, lovely triage nurse told me they usually just want a free prescription or paracetemol....people on floor as no seats....a man grabbed a fire extinguisher and smashed up 7 windows so more chaos and police....i was told i would have to wait 27 hours for the ct scan on head so i left after 7 hours and paid for one privately and it was a trapped nerve in neck so not serious and osteopath sorted it out fast....people cannot get gp appointments where i live and 111 seems to send everyone to the hospital....they really need to filter out the total timewasters at the door with a much tougher fast triage system and send them away...there were loads of people outside smoking and eating and then going back in to collapse on the floor and wail when they saw a doctor or nurse walk through....!!

many people do not need there but because the NHS is crap, they cannot see a GP. Boils down back to the fact that the NHS is crap. and someone eating a curry in the waiting area won't make one ounce of a difference to treatment or waiting times. You sound daft!

I find myself generally in agreement with the OP, it is a people problem to a certain extent. I wouldn’t judge a London hospital as the average though, they must in general be a lot busier than some hospitals, except in other big cities. As for not treating drunken, drugged up, abusive people, sorry but unless it’s life threatening for them, they are back of the queue, as is anyone who abuses staff. I have had to sit beside my almost dying father far too many times and listen to, watch some horrendous people taking their problems out on already overworked and stressed staff, and it shouldn’t happen. It can be a lottery, I have been to our A&E and been seen within minutes, yes minutes, mainly because It’s only emergencies we go for (chest pains) and I dropped lucky to see few in there, and all the staff needed to treat me around. But I’ve also taken my Sis with a badly sprained ankle (turned out to be a fracture) and waited a few hours. I have nursing friends and some of the tales they tell around who comes into A&E, and what for, beggar belief. Too idle to pick up essential meds, someone on social media told me to come, so drunk they cannot walk, drugged up repeat cases.
A&E means accident and emergency, it doesn’t mean self inflicted crap or too idle to try caring for themselves, or too thick to make an informative health decision. For every stupid person like this, there will be a small child forced to wait, an elderly confused vulnerable person forced to wait. There’s no respect now for far too much of the NHS. That is a people problem.

Genuine question.
If it's not the staff's fault that they have no system in place, whose fault is it?
Whose fault was it the departments were not communicating with each other?
Who didn't give the paperwork?
Who sent people for tests three times?
It's the law that most posts in threads like this contain the words 'I don't blame the staff but'.
Why not?
If you went into a chaotic cafe where no one was communicating with the kitchen, would you not think the system needed improving?
Or if your bus didn't turn up because someone had not done the timetable properly, would you not wonder why not?
Why are NHS staff never at fault for poor systems?

London A&Es are dreadful - a 3 hour wait is exceptional- you must have been lucky. 🤷‍♀️.

The NHS is a disgrace. 😡

I'm really sorry because I've only read page 1 and have to dash but I have to say that I think a big part of the problem, not the ONLY part, but a bit one, is that there is such a lot of inefficiency in the system which CAN be better managed.

Case in point, we have had to take DS to A&E a couple of times for suspected fractures (he plays a lot of sport and yes, he's fractured his finger twice and his wrist once). Usually, it's not too bad but we've been in there for anything from 3-8 hours.

The last time he smacked his finger (same one) I wasn't convinced he'd broken it but we were concerned. We decided to see how he was in the morning. Still not great, but seemed better. So I contactd my GP surgery and they ordered an x-ray which I was told I could turn up for anytime between then and 48 hours later. Which we did. Whole thing took 30 minutes and the images were reviewd, no concerns, all done. If I'd taken him to A&E, that would have involved 6+ hours probably, 2 nrses, a doctor etc. Instead, it was 5 minutes of a gp's time to review my request and order the x-ray, the radiologist and then, at a quiet moment (I assume) a doctor looking at the x ray. Obviously, not possible with a lot of breaks, but I think we've all had that experience where we go because we know if there IS a problem, it needs to be dealt with, but we're not 100% sure. Managing it the way I was able to massively reduces the burden.

I’m surprised my how many people take all of their family. I had to take DH due to breathing difficulties and one patient had six adult family members with them. I had to go for myself recently and there were no seats for patients because of the amount of people who had large groups of family members/ friends with them!

The NHS isn’t a disgrace. It’s not had the funding and political decisions it needs for a very long time, and it’s abused at the A&E level by far too many. Away from A&E and the backlog of elective surgery it is doing some fabulous, and free work to keep some very very ill people alive and doing well. But it does need a good sort out from the GP provision right across to caring for the elderly and severely disabled. I have no experience of Maternity, but this sounds another area critical for review.

I’m at a loss to see how having private health care and insurance based provision as better to be honest. Fine if you can pay the fees, afford the insurance, but it seems to me that far too many who post on MN aren’t in this position, they can barely afford to put a hot meal on the table, so what do they do, die I presume, as they used to do back pre NHS. If folks don’t think the NHS is good enough, then bloody pay for your treatment if you can afford it, and leave the service for those who do need it, there is that choice.

Being in and out in 3 hours tells me you could of waited for a GP appointment.

Are the large family groups partly a function of the big waits though? Eg if you know you will be seen and sorted or admitted in an hour you don’t need much support. But if you expect to be there all day you are less likely to manage alone.

It’s still pretty selfish, but it’s a symptom of the system failure, not the cause.

And A&E is where the crowding happens because it’s the one place in the system where people can just turn up. This should be the GP surgeries, but for reasons linked to underfunding and not enough trainees, they have to turn people away.

I think the problems vary according to where you live.
I am in a fast growing city and have experinced A&E rammed (no seating available - people say in the doorways.
Parents live in the south west. Mum was recently admitted (pneumonia) - the walk in centre saw her in 20 mins (NO exageration) then an ambulance transported her to hospital (not blue lights) and she stayed in a week.
Having said that, she did need help showering in there as they were understaffed (siblings and I had no issue with that)
I had to charge my phone there (dad was with neighbours as he has dementia and I was liaising with my siblings too) we all live hours from parents.
I got my dad a GP appointment within an hour of me phoning his surgery (his age could have been a contributory factor) but that would NEVER have happened that quicky in my GP surgery .
THe service in the alk in centre was SO efficient, I actually got myself (cough/ear ache) checked out when there as wasn't sure if/when I would get checked out at home)
Mum had nothing but praise.
NHS is a victim of its own success and underfunded too!

I went to a&e with dd who had to have a test and then wait in the waiting room again, then have another test and again wait in the waiting room - so we had to be there for around 6 hours regardless, she had an allergic reaction to medication so it had been an emergency.

The two families either side of us were also waiting 6 hours + as they were there before we arrived.

Eventually we were all take through to cubicles for the consultation

the one family were told to take paracetamol and to see their gp if the problem persisted and the other family were told the same

we were given alternative medication and stop taking the medication dd was allergic and she was reacting to as it could affect her heart

why were the other two families - 11 in total not seeking help from their chemist first rather than sit in a&e waiting, moaning the entire time about the wait. I have a feeling they were made to wait as others were seen who had emergency needs.

The other issue is getting the elderly out of hospital and home, this not only clogs up beds but ambulances, as the people in A&E can't get a bed so they stay in the ambulance for longer, stay in A&E longer and there aren't enough beds in hospitals to cope with the back end getting clogged up.

There needs to be a half way house nursing home to go, so they can be assess their by SS, rather than in hospital when leaving to go hoe alone

Couldn’t agree more! And people who are coming to A&E for routine things / something 111 could assist with or even a pharmacy. I’ve only ever been twice - once for son who burn his hand and once for husband who was having chest pain. Called 111 first - hospital expecting us, seen very quickly. They have to deal with so much crap

I do think there should be a staff member in the waiting room stopping large family groups coming in so they seats are for the sick

I fantasise it's a 1960's style Matron who brooks no nonsense and kicks the twats out