To think people shouldn't use annual leave if they can't get in due to bad weather?

[malificent7]

I was surprised to find out that is the law to use annual leave if there is bad enough weather to make travel dangerous. I had to use my annual leave to avoid my commute through a huge flood last year. We are having increased storms now.
Of course in an ideal world we would all work in the same town we love in but this is not always possible.

Check your Company's policies. But most companies will have this in place. It's the only fair way.
We have set ups where people can wfh if the weather makes travel impossible, but at the end of the day it's the employee's responsibility to be able to get to work.

And what exactly is wrong with that?

It's not the company's fault either and if they allowed people extra paid time off due to bad weather it would be a free pass for the piss takers, who're probably the same ones who think paid sick leave is an allowance they're able to take in addition to their annual leave, who'd use it as an excuse to not work every chance they got.

In my work we treat each emergency on a case-by case basis. If we don't want to take annual leave or unpaid leave we're generally expected to report to work in whatever capacity we can and do our best with the resources we have. So if all we can do is reorganise a paper diary for 8 hours from home - then so be it! Its still treated as a day worked which I think that's fair given the circumstances.

Most people would probably prefer it to be annual leave than unpaid.

It is the employee responsibility to get to work, if the workplace is functioning.

@Ohshutupcolinyoutwat even when you can't do what you were scheduled to do, it's likely that there are CPD/ Admin activities that you can do from home? The same will go for many people.
How do you think that the economy would cope if people all got paid on days when they are not doing anything that they should be doing in their job?! You have a very narrow view of the World tbh.

Agree with others saying people would take the piss otherwise. It’s always the same people claiming they couldn’t possibly have made it in and conditions where they are were catastrophic. Then there’s the competitive conversation the next day about just how apocalyptic it was and how they could NEVER have made it in. Even in offices where people who live in the same places made it in!

Not everyone is a reasonable employee unfortunately. In the same way that not every employer is reasonable.

And here we are.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5259358-how-do-you-get-out-if-work-if-afraid-to-drive-in-amber-alert

That poster doesn't even live in the red zone.

You can't be "made" to take annual leave, but your employer does not have to pay if you are not at work, and so many people "choose" - with their employers agreement - to use annual leave.
Ultimately, some people chose to live in out of the way places; others make all sorts of excuses not to come in when others persevere. I accept there are some situations where no-one could come in, but there's an awful lot of cases where people could come in if they really really wanted to, but they don't. Anything else creates a perverse incentive and is unfair on employer and those who are more committed to turning up.

It depends on company policy. The starting point, which is entirely legal and not that outrageous, is if you do not attend work then you need to take annual leave or unpaid leave.

Then, some companies are more generous than others and give a day off in extreme weather circumstances, or if the company policy does not allow some managers use their own discretion.

You could claim it is "unfair", but if someone told you life is fair you are in for a shock! I have to work from home today as desk based and can be done from home while many of my colleagues whose work is site based get a freeby day off! But understandable as their safety is at risk and I just need to suck it up!

In the very snowy winter I used to battle my 45 mile commute to work in the NHS, past my colleagues house 3 miles from work who without fail said ‘weather too bad to get in’

That was the easiest bit of my journey!

It was her perception it was too bad to come in. It was my perception she was a lazy, angling CF who wanted to stay at home.

I can remember years in the past with really heavy snow, and people walked a couple of miles into work. I think the weather has to be really exceptional for it to be an excuse not to go into work. I can understand people not wanting to do a long walk in heavy snow or really adverse conditions but in those cases then I think they should take leave.

I think its normal to have to make the time up, surely you can't expect to have a paid duvet day because of where you've chosen to live? Our policy is unpaid leave if you cannot wfh or get to the office, but people can elect to use annual leave so they don't have to miss a day's pay. We don't get too much extreme weather where I live fortunately, but this is mainly taken by people when the schools close because of snow/weather so people need to stay home with their kids

Exactly. Businesses are there to make money at the end of the day.

Imagine how much it would cost to pay, for example, a full quota of staff for an office block of 1,000 people for 1 day, when no income is being generated.

I can understand why it's perfectly legal. Ultimately you're getting a day off if you can't get to work, so why shouldn't it be holiday?

There are often other options, depending on company policy:

• work from home if you can
• take a day's unpaid leave if you haven't got any annual leave left
• make up the time later
• swap shifts for another day

My company's policy states "in the event of inclement weather or the disruption to your travel arrangements to work, staff may take the time off. This time off must be pre-authorised by a Director and can either be taken as unpaid leave or holiday."

In reality most people would now WFH and some might ask to make it up later if they haven't got the holiday left.

The responsibility for getting to and from work lies with the employee, not the employer.

A reasonable employer will allow you to take annual leave or make the time up if you are unable to work due to the weather. Otherwise, it will be unpaid leave.

Totally. We had snow one year and I delayed my journey until the ploughs had been out, then made my way to the office. Once I was on the main roads I was fine and the journey was probably better than normal as the schools were closed, etc.

Someone that lived a 10 minute tube journey and a short walk away (when they were running fine) decided that the weather was too bad to get in.

Too many people will just take any opportunity to avoid going into work and that's unfair on employers.

If you don't want to use your annual leave then take a day unpaid or offer to work extra next week to make up the time.

I've had to close my (outdoors) business today and have lost pay. That's just life in bad weather.

It's not legal to force people to take annual leave, unless they give notice of twice the length of the leave required to be taken. So two days notice for one days leave.

Couple of years back when all the train strikes started this was the expectation. You either take an unpaid day off, or if you want pay you take AL.

The reason for this was that while some people live further away and need to use trains, some live closer and can walk / cycle / get a short taxi in and it would be unfair to give someone a paid day off because of their choice to live far away from the place of work.

The accommodation was that an unpaid day off was available to those that couldn't travel, but the AL was an option if you didn't want lose money. So you weren't forced to use AL it was your choice.

Guess the reasoning here would be the same - the place of work is still open / operating and need their staff to make an attempt to come in. It'll be easier for some and not for others. Unless unanimously the place of work shuts because ALL staff can't make it in, then you can't treat some people to a free day off and make some work.

If the office is shut due to the weather then it's paid. If you're the only one who can't get in then you work from home or take it as holiday.

Snow days are a thing of the past since wfh became the norm, sadly.

Can you do your admin, telephone calls, catch up on e-learning?

But if some can work and some can’t, you’re unfairly benefiting those who can’t by not making them take annual leave. I once had someone worked for me who “couldn’t get in due to the snow”…she was the only person who didn’t make it into the office, she had to take annual leave or unpaid leave. It’s a mechanism to ensure fairness, not disadvantage one person.

The law 😂😂 some people live on another planet. My work is closed today because of the storm. We don't have to go in and we're getting paid for it without using any leave!

In my work place you had the option of taking annual leave or offering yourself to the nearest healthcare building you could reach by walking to eh GP, hospital etc. We usually opted for the AL!

I can't see why ppl shouldn't use their annual leave in these circs . If someone has to be in the workplace ie can't wfh. Most organisations can't afford to give away free days off.

I remember in 2001 during the petrol crisis we were told we HAD to be in even if we had no way of driving in. I was not on any description of easy public transport route, in fact the workplace was very rural so no one was. Luckily the crisis was averted.