To believe that prisoners serving life sentences shouldn’t have access to luxuries like TV or gym equipment?

[NimbleRoseMoose]

Why should taxpayers fund entertainment for people who’ve committed heinous crimes?

These are noble goals, but the reality is that it's cheaper to provide a TV, gym, etc. than it is to provide skilled input over a long period.

UK culture is such that funding prisons properly is never going to supported by politicians and the public alike.

Their punishment is to be denied their freedom not mental torture, you can’t keep people locked up with nothing to do whatever their crime how do they rehabilitate after that?

I think you're right. Unfortunately the public generally want to see people punished rather than rehabilitated.

I think gym equipment comes under exercise rather than entertainment. It’s not like they can go for a long run.

I had the chance to take my children then aged around 10 and 5 for a look round a prison because of a families day event.
I took them with the hope it would shock them into never wanting to end up there as an inmate.
It turned out the opposite they thought the place was amazing (as did many other children) where the inmates had their own room with a tv and games console, use of a gym and could go and train to do different jobs for free.
It certainly opened my eyes to the life they had in there.

I agree with this.

What do you think they're currently spending it on that could be diverted?

This would have been in the family unit. Not the regular prison area As you would know if you had been

what is 'luxury TV equipment' in any case???

And where do you think they all can work given that they cannot leave the prison facilities?

Family day events tend to be deliberately cheery and intended to reassure children that their serving family member is OK.

The bad bits (like the fact the prisoners are locked in those rooms and can’t leave), the poor food etc. are deliberately glossed over. In addition, the ‘nice’ bits of the prison get shown.

Taking children to an event designed to convince them that prison isn’t that bad to convince them prison is that bad is an interesting choice……

I see your point, but these are political choices.

For example, £1 billion pounds will run the NHS for 2.4 days according to the Kings Fund (reputable source of information is here https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/data-and-charts/key-facts-figures-nhs).

So, imagine what just one days funding of the NHS, about £400 million, could do for the prison rehabilitation service. Likewise (but a different debate) for social care spending, if a tiny amount of hospital funding was redirected (see above link).

No politician in the UK has the balls to step up and speak openly about this. So, ultimately, the public get what the public want - high reoffending rates and a loss of people who could be working and paying tax. These are choices.

I also work in a prison and can tell you that taking away distractions like tv's would NOT be a good idea. Don't forget that a lot of prisoners are quite damaged souls, particularly females, and time behind their doors with nothing to deflect from their thoughts would be massively problematic. In the prison I work in, the 'entertainment' is limited - they certainly don't have access to all the gaming equipment the media would have you believe anyway.

Holloway had a swimming pool.

OP

I think TV is probably a cheap babysitter.

Useful to hear from someone currently at the coalface. It's telling that people who actually work in this sector think plans like OPs aren't sensible.

YABU. The punishment is loss of their freedom, home, job and professional standing, relationship, money, social life, hobbies (mostly), social life, access to their belongings, ability to see their kids, friends and family except for short visits.
Removing their few sources of mental stimulation and exercise would just cause them to deteriorate while they serve their sentence. They can hardly walk the dog or go for a round of golf.

In many countries including the UK, one of the key aims is to rehabilitate, not just punish. Counselling, therapy , education, training and jobs are important. You can’t achieve that by depriving them of everything. It’s notable that in countries where prison is seen as “lenient” because conditions are humane, and the emphasis is on rehabilitation, the rate of reoffending is lowest. Harsh conditions, dehumanising treatment and deprivation just don’t work. At the end of their sentence the prisoners go back into the world full of anger and bitterness, they’re institutionalised and unable to live normally with other people and re-enter the world of work. This is seen very clearly in countries where prison is seen as retribution and a “tough” experience - reoffending rates are high and prisons turn out an underclass of unemployable people who have become embedded into the world of criminals.

Bloody hell OP...what do you imagine would happen in a prison full of highly volatile, violent men (or women!) who had nothing to do?

They have lost their liberty, not their tendencies towards violence. It would be absolute carnage.

@Layla30 - so they didn't take you to the prisons which are crumbling and the prisoners throw piss and shit at the staff. Good for them. Your children would have been terrified and the state is obliged to protect them, not expose them to the needless risk of serious offenders who like hurting people.

Too right it would. It’s hard enough for prison officers as it is.

The punishment of a custodial sentence is the deprivation of their liberty.

There is no benefit to anyone to deprive prisoners of leisure or exercise activities.

If anything, it would likely increase pressures on prison staff and mental health services because there would be a drastic increase in poor mental health among prisoners who were deprived of them.

The NHS is struggling as it is... where is the money to come from the facilitate the increased need for psychiatric medication and the trained staff whose responsibility it would then become to manage prisoners with an increase in challenging behaviours?

Also, I'm curious why in your eyes, the deprivation of liberty isn't punishment enough?

If they are serving life sentences they should never be released. That's the main problem, life rarely means life. A life sentence with the possibility of release if you behave yourself for 20 years isn't a life sentence.

Make life mean life, then the OP's position about taking away forms of recreation and entertainment is not a problem. They'll never get released so it doesn't matter how unpleasant their life in prison is.

Prison should be unpleasant. It should be a place that deters you from committing a crime and risk being sent there.

Would you actually want your children to see the reality? Would you want your 5 year old to see the cell that was covered in blood, because when it’s inhabitant was told he’d need to wait for us to replace his vape, he sliced his arm open so we’d ’have to’ get him one? Would you want your children standing outside the door as an officer had urine thrown at them? (Apparently she deserved it, because earlier in the day she’d informed the prisoner that there was no showers due to a water pressure issue). Would you have wanted your 10 year old to witness the Code Blue, as we cut down a man who tried to hang himself? Would you have wanted you and your children on the landing as someone staged a dirty protest (in an attempt to be moved to a different jail, he’d smeared his own faeces). Assuming this is one of the things that your children found amazing, you’ll understand what I mean when I say I could smell it in my hair when I got home. I’m not sure what happened while you and children were visiting the jail, but I’ve witnessed / been involved in the above list just this week.

Families Day are no more an accurate view of prison life, than armed forces days on town centres are an accurate depiction of what it’s like to be in the army.

I agree OP, and also think prisoners should have to do some kind of work or training for work (vocational training etc) on a fulltime basis. And basic education for those who lack it.

I was once called to eduction to help remove a man who had intentionally soiled himself, just so he had something to throw at the teacher. People aren’t queuing up to do that job. We haven’t got enough to retain primary school teachers in their jobs. Teachers are currently (rightly) saying they aren’t paid enough money to deal with four year olds who aren’t toilet trained. You’re gonna have to pay people A LOT of money to put up with a grown man chucking literal faeces at them.

You don't think having your freedom removed, being separated from friends and family, and being prohibited from engaging in society in any meaningful way is considered unpleasant?

It will be a problem for the people who have to manage them. We already don't have sufficient staff. The job is unpopular. Why do you want to make it even harder for prison staff?