To want Sadiq Khan to answer this question

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Are there grooming gangs in London?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/grooming-gangs-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-stonewalling-tory-questions-b1205508.html

He was goady yes.

That's his failing

I just want a clear answer and no obfuscation on an issue where obfuscation and political game playing has caused incredible harm to young girls.

Op the sarky responses you've had to this are ridiculous. It shows where we are either political loyalty above all else

The racist trope of men of a particular race/culture/religion grooming, enslaving and raping girls from out with that race/culture/ religion.

I think before people accuse Khan of obfuscation or goadiness, they should look at Susan Hall's previous record. It is unlikely that her question was being asked in good faith.

Do you think she/her party asked the question so that more resources and urgency can go to helping those children, or to make it look like Sadiq Khan is somehow a sympathizer or lazy enabler of the gangs?

I think part of the problem is that this horrific problem is being used by politicians on both sides. ( On one side to stoke racial tensions and in the other to ignore an issue for fear of stoking racial tensions)
Both sides are guilty of not prioritising what is best for vulnerable working class girls ( often in the care system so the state’s responsibility)

His goady responses to a straight question is on him.

He and others who defend that are prioritising political loyalty over the issues

I’d rather take the focus off the race of the perpetrators ( although the significance of that should be properly explored by an investigation)
I don’t want this thread to degenerate into racist tropes. I’d rather it looked at the way politicians are dealing with this issue.

I am aware of Susan Hall I am also aware at present the issue of grooming gangs is very much in the news. I have no doubt of Elon Musk aim was to try to stir up racial hatred but this has led to a government review. It should not be under review as it should have been dealt with correctly at the time but I for one am glad it is while also Elon Musk is being called out

the government review is a nationwide enquiry into grooming gangs was announced last week

so why can this not be asked to the London mayor? He had the opportunity to say well if you are referring to specific ethnic gangs no that isn’t the concerns in London but he wanted to score points. This isn’t the issue to score points over children are being raped he could have risen above her point scoring

also why is he using terminology like girls were groomed for county lines and used for sex this implies far less violence

again this is dismissive of what is happening these girls are being raped. Likely again to be working class girls many in care/under social services

what has been learnt ?

“What has been learnt?”
This is what I feel. The whole exchange between SK and SH demonstrates the way political allegiances/ beliefs have got in the way of safeguarding children.

Thank you for this.
Flagging it in case it was missed.
I have asked for this thread to be shut down because I’m concerned it will turn into something unhelpful.

And there is the perfect example of how conversation about these controversial matters is chilled and shut down for fear of being “inflammatory”. For goodness sake, hold the line and discuss whatever the hell you want to, especially about these horrendous matters. Fear of being inflammatory is exactly why the whole mess was never addressed and continues to this day.

And on point 2 the Laming report which I believe is now about 20 years old identified exactly this issue- professionals being so worried about being racist that they dismissed or ignored the fairly obvious signs that Victoria Climbie was being abused. 20 years ago he flagged that perhaps that poor little girl could have been saved if people had been prepared to look critically and objectively at what was in front of their eyes rather than filtering through assumptions about race and racism. Yet we learn nothing.

Susan Hall may well have an ulterior motive in her line of questioning. However, pretending he doesn’t understand what a grooming gang is or that as Mayor of London he does not have responsibility for knowing about such things is utterly reprehensible. If you were one of those girls or young women how would you feel about that sneering dismissal?

@Barbadosgirl That's not correct regarding Climbie. Her social workers were predominantly black and one said that she thought Victoria was so obedient, fearful and quiet because of African culture.

Sadly these discussions are always shut down. That contributes to the problem.

@OpheliaWasntMad "I don’t want this thread to degenerate into racist tropes. I’d rather it looked at the way politicians are dealing with this issue"

I agree with you. However, it is impossible to look at the way politicians are dealing with the issue without also dealing with the way some people are using it as an opportunity to perpetuate a racist narrative. You only have to listen to, say, Robert Jenrick, to see how this is happening. Also, I do think you have chosen an unfortunate champion in Susan Hall.

I couldn’t agree more. Answer the bloody question Sadiq. Put the victims above your political machinations. It is absolutely sickening.

And there is the perfect example of how conversation about these controversial matters is chilled and shut down for fear of being “inflammatory”. For goodness sake, hold the line and discuss whatever the hell you want to, especially about these horrendous matters. Fear of being inflammatory is exactly why the whole mess was never addressed and continues to this day.

Exactly. This is why we are here. Due to badgering from those with strong political loyalty overriding actual concerns for women and girls

Do you give a stuff about child rape victims in any way, or do you just want to bang on about how you don’t like Susan Hall?

It doesn’t matter who asked the question, the Mayor has a responsibility to
answer.

Susan Hall, Susan Hall, Susan Hall. Is that all you care about?

@Babadookinthewardrobe "Susan Hall, Susan Hall, Susan Hall. Is that all you care about?"

No. I care about this whole awful situation being dealt with openly and properly and not being hijacked by the Right to push a racist narrative. You?

Of course. Anything bar actually answer a question eg Khan

The responses on this thread to the op show why we are where we are

I completely agree.
The problem with looking at this issue from the lens of of “Asian grooming gangs” only is that it takes away from the actual issue which is child criminal and sexual abuse, and focus’s on the ethnicity of perpetrators. It’s a goal for those with ulterior motives and does nothing to help the victims.

The fact is, Asian grooming gangs are a tiny majority of the perpetrators of such crimes. The issues in this particular area of course need to be addressed however the actual issue is that it is too easy in this country to abuse the young girls no one cares about. Children are being abused every day by all types of people and not enough is done to address that. Only a few end up going to jail and generally, these young children are treated awfully by those who should protect them. If people shouting about these grooming gangs really cared, they would address the issue of child sexual abuse. They would do more to protect children and hold perpetrators accountable. All perpetrators, not just the Asian ones.

Addressing these types of grooming gangs is almost a sub section of the wider issue. If children were being better protected in the first place NO ONE would have this opportunity to abuse so freely in the first place.

Did you listen to the question. The word Asian was not used

Err, exactly. That is the point! They ignored that behaviour which in the context of her presentation was a clear sign of abuse BECAUSE her guardians were African. In other words, as Laming concludes in the report (which I have read in full, not just Press reporting/summaries) because they saw things through the lens of race, they ignored or minimised the signs of abuse. In addition there were a multitude of other professionals involved- including doctors and nurses- not all of whom were black- who also did not report signs of abuse. Lord Laming’s conclusions are clear that blindness due to race and culture contributed to her death.