Page 17 | To have objected to ‘prayers’ at work

Iamthewintersale · 2025-01-21T13:56:07+00:00

Will try to keep this brief… Work in a team of 12, 6 in U.K. and 6 in USA ( mid-west) and once a week we have a team meeting that we take turns in running. Tomorrow is the turn of A. A is a Republican, church goer, voted Trump because she wanted, quote ‘More money in my pocket book and illegals dealt with’. So far so MAGA. This came up pre-election as she’s the only Trump fan on the team and was open about it. On the agenda for the meeting is ‘Prayer’ as point one. I pinged manager a note saying what?? A thinks it would be nice to start off with a prayer. As a team. I have asked for it to be OFF the agenda. US manager thinks it’s ‘harmless’ but has said will clarify. AIBU to think it’s totally inappropriate??? I’m an atheist for a start, most of my U.K. team are the same or at least agnostic. Seems weird that she’s never tried this before, but suddenly Trump ‘god saved me to MAGA’ is inaugurated and a team prayer is in the agenda. We are a large global company, BTW, not some local mom & pop outfit that sells bibles… YANBU - work is secular. She keeps her views and prayers to herself own time. YABU - lighten up, what harm can it do.

HauntedPencil · 21/01/2025 19:54

I agree with you completely. It should be separate and totally optional.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 19:55

MissionBiscuits · 21/01/2025 19:29

I see the point you're trying to make, but for starters Democrats aren't known for trying to force their religious beliefs on others, so it's unlikely they would do something like this. They might invite the team to join them for prayer prior to the meeting if that was normal for them, but it wouldn't be on the agenda.

Trump literally has the support and involvement of fundamentalist christian groups who want to see America governed according to their religious beliefs and in many evangelical churches support for Trump is preached as though it's integral to their religion. They vote according to their religious beliefs and pray according to their political beliefs, so it really is relevant because there is a strong possibility she will want to pray for/about Trump.

Show quote history

for starters Democrats aren't known for trying to force their religious beliefs on others

I beg to differ. We have American Democrats to thank for the modern religions of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, Critical Race Theory and Trans Ideology. I don't want to forced to worship at the alter of any of those thank you very much, or risk being ostracised by my colleagues or lose my job if I dare to speak out and say so.

LadyLapsang · 21/01/2025 19:56

Sittings in both the House of Commons and the House of Lords begin with prayers.

PurBal · 21/01/2025 20:00

I’ve worked for employers that prayer at work: churches.

TunnocksOrDeath · 21/01/2025 20:01

Depending on whether you actually have to pretend to like this colleague in order to work with them, it might be fun to take prayer time to its logical extreme, in order to get it banned.
Probably the best way to do this is joining the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The members call themselves Pastafarians, revere pirates, and often wear pirate hats as an outward sign of their faith. The officiants wear a colander on their heads for services.
So there's a lot for you to work with there when it's your turn to host, and you can choose the form of worship.

SiobhanSharpe · 21/01/2025 20:01

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 14:29

Well, it’s a video call so I suppose I sit there and listen to her thank god for Trump or whatever the hell she wants to pray about????

Show quote history

I was wondering if she would be thanking god for Trump's victory and to guide his hand in Making America Great Again, going forwards.
Religion and politics!

FairDuck · 21/01/2025 20:03

Seeing as the meeting is only 12 people with half in US and half UK, is there a risk that you are going to look a bit intolerant because you could just sit quietly while this woman prays. As you say you all take turns to lead By taking it up with your boss are you making it into a BIG deal that everyone will be talking about whereas if you just ignored it then for the next 11 meetings there will be o prayers and when it is As turn again she might have worked out for herself that it didn't go down well and just drop it?

SilenceInside · 21/01/2025 20:03

LadyLapsang · 21/01/2025 19:56

Sittings in both the House of Commons and the House of Lords begin with prayers.

https://humanists.uk/action/parliamentary-prayers/

That gives an advantage to any MP in the House of Commons who attends the prayers, as they are able to put down a ‘prayer card’ on their seat, which reserves it for the whole day. This means that non-Christian MPs, who don’t want to attend prayers for a religion they do not believe in, are less likely to get a seat or be selected by the Speaker to take part in the day’s business.

DangerPigeon · 21/01/2025 20:04

Probably a good time to hire/borrow/make a jedi cloak and keep it in your desk drawer

Original poster

Iamthewintersale · 21/01/2025 20:04

TunnocksOrDeath · 21/01/2025 20:01

Depending on whether you actually have to pretend to like this colleague in order to work with them, it might be fun to take prayer time to its logical extreme, in order to get it banned.
Probably the best way to do this is joining the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The members call themselves Pastafarians, revere pirates, and often wear pirate hats as an outward sign of their faith. The officiants wear a colander on their heads for services.
So there's a lot for you to work with there when it's your turn to host, and you can choose the form of worship.

I do like her! In small. Long distance, meet in person 2/3 x a year kind of way. Though Pastafarian is bloody genius!

OP posts:

mitogoshigg · 21/01/2025 20:04

Just checked, it's perfectly legal to put prayers on a U.K. work agenda but you can be forced to attend that part of the meeting

Coffeeandwalnutcakes · 21/01/2025 20:10

mitogoshigg · 21/01/2025 20:04

Just checked, it's perfectly legal to put prayers on a U.K. work agenda but you can be forced to attend that part of the meeting

Can’t be forced, surely

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:10

Not appropriate and I'm a (doubting) Christian.

However, singing carols was banned from my work Christmas party and I don't really agree with that.

Whenwillglorioussummercome · 21/01/2025 20:10

SilenceInside · 21/01/2025 20:03

https://humanists.uk/action/parliamentary-prayers/

That gives an advantage to any MP in the House of Commons who attends the prayers, as they are able to put down a ‘prayer card’ on their seat, which reserves it for the whole day. This means that non-Christian MPs, who don’t want to attend prayers for a religion they do not believe in, are less likely to get a seat or be selected by the Speaker to take part in the day’s business.

Show quote history

Selection by the Speaker doesn’t go on where you sit. They’ve got that wrong. The rest is totally true.

I feel like many long threads we are now in groundhog territory though.

Whenwillglorioussummercome · 21/01/2025 20:11

mitogoshigg · 21/01/2025 20:04

Just checked, it's perfectly legal to put prayers on a U.K. work agenda but you can be forced to attend that part of the meeting

But if doing so caused another staff member to feel excluded because they were not participating you’re heading towards an indirect discrimination suit. It’s a stupid thing to do unless the entire team wants it to happen and you’re certain about that.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:13

EarthSight · 21/01/2025 17:29

In U.K, I think you could legally decline on belief or non belief grounds.

It comes across like they're asserting some power or dominance. Same reason why I don't think like pronoun introduction nonsense. It's mostly to designed to reinforce their idea that they are righteous, and out anyone who is a dissenter.

Totally agree with all that.

Azandme · 21/01/2025 20:13

shuggles · 21/01/2025 18:37

@Iamthewintersale I don't get what the issue is. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. I'm indifferent to other people practicing their religion. So if she wants to have a prayer on the call, go for it.

I worked in a workplace that had a number of muslim colleagues. On occasion, I would see them roll out their prayer mats in the office and start praying. Whenever that happened, I would stay silent as a courtesy and carry on working. I think anyone who would get annoyed or offended by that must be a particularly bored person with a lot of free time on their hands.

By the way, the political leanings of your colleague are irrelevant. Religion is a broad church and different religious people will have different political perspectives.

Freedom of religion DOES include freedom from religion.

Everyone has the right to have their beliefs respected, and atheism is as much a belief as any other.

(The amount of people who don't understand this is surprisingly high - as demonstrated by your post).

CrowleyKitten · 21/01/2025 20:14

and, not being a christian, so no expert, isn't there a passage about how prayer should be done privately, and not flaunted? it should be about your own beliefs, not about trying to show others what you believe.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:10

Not appropriate and I'm a (doubting) Christian.

However, singing carols was banned from my work Christmas party and I don't really agree with that.

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

Gonners · 21/01/2025 20:19

CrowleyKitten · 21/01/2025 20:14

and, not being a christian, so no expert, isn't there a passage about how prayer should be done privately, and not flaunted? it should be about your own beliefs, not about trying to show others what you believe.

If that were the case, it would surely be the end of churches? 😉

MissionBiscuits · 21/01/2025 20:19

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 19:55

for starters Democrats aren't known for trying to force their religious beliefs on others

I beg to differ. We have American Democrats to thank for the modern religions of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, Critical Race Theory and Trans Ideology. I don't want to forced to worship at the alter of any of those thank you very much, or risk being ostracised by my colleagues or lose my job if I dare to speak out and say so.

Show quote history

Thanks for showing up to illustrate my point. Those are political ideals based on human decency, not religious beliefs and they weren't 'invented' by Americans.

RedHelenB · 21/01/2025 20:19

I'd be so tempted to take the piss, with a load of Amen Sister and Hallelujahs.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/01/2025 20:23

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

Show quote history

Well I think technically it was Christmas/end of year party.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/01/2025 20:23

Jerabilis · 21/01/2025 14:16

I'm a devout Christian. If someone tried this at my work it would be a toss up between:

Me volunteering to lead the prayer and praying for us to have the wisdom to keep divisive American politics out of the workplace/ praying that American Christians turn back to god and away from worshipping their country

Pointedly asking if there will be a rotation of the prayer led by Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist colleagues etc (we're a very diverse workplace!)

My kind of Christian. This atheist approves!

Azandme · 21/01/2025 20:24

TwigletsAndRadishes · 21/01/2025 20:16

That's ridiculous. It was a Christmas party and carols are part of our culture, our heritage and our Christmas tradition whether we are religious or not. And a party isn't work, so it's completely different. Anyone who is likely to be offended by the singing of carols probably isn't coming to a Christmas party anyway.

Show quote history

Except a designsted work party is considered an extension of work, hence why you can get in trouble with your employer for any shenanigans.

Lots of people fall foul of this one.