AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

If you pay for carers to come into the home day and night (privately, above and beyond the state package) does it really work out much cheaper than paying for residential care? Plus having to make adaptations to the house.

It's maybe do-able if you come from a large family and the care can be shared between siblings (assuming they live close by) and if your parent doesn't mind you doing the personal care - many people would find this harrowing.

One is paid through savings and the other is paid by us. Government money isn’t free money. It is taxes that we all pay.

What you are asking is - how can I make it so you all pay for my parents’ care and I get to inherit hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Surely you can see why that might not go over well?

Councils are largely in severe financial straits. They can only afford to pay for care for those where they have no choice. So they are and will continue to get more and more aggressive about deprivation of assets. They also will not agree to fund a care home place at a point where you might thing your parent needs a care home.

Oh that's awful, but so pleased you were able to find good care.

I don't think we'd be able to do another equity release as I doubt Mum would be classed as having capacity to make that decision :( I do have financial POA though, so maybe. I'll look into it - it's not something I had considered.

You're exactly right.

But I expect @DrPrunesqualer will be along shortly to tell you you're wrong despite you working in the field right now!

Anyone I know who has done this have had carers doing personal care, and family doing the rest. If they need carers then they will get attendance allowance, which helps a tiny bit.
Friend paid for carers coming in morning and evening to help with washing, dressing and getting in and out of bed. She sorted out meals and drinks, and took her mum to the toilet during the day. She wfh so could manage all this.
Paying for carers all the time works out more expensive than a care home.

Not wanting to sound patronising Justean but

Im guessing the care home know you are trying to sell the house
Have you suggested that whilst you can’t pay now you can pay when it’s sold. Do a % interest deal on back dated payments perhaps.

Of course if the care home is working hand to mouth then they won’t be able to do this but worth asking, if you haven’t.

Alternatively try Auctions for the sale

It depends on the care required. Some people need two carers for personal care and if that is happening for 30 mins 4 times a day it can be much more than a home.

If there were more options for older people to move into affordable sheltered/Extra Care housing, it would reduce the numbers who actually need residential care. Living independently, but in a suitable safe environment, with company and the option of care, would be preferable, and free up many family homes. With an ever expanding older age group, more are needed.

Yes, we have spoken to the care home. They just say it's unfortunate.

We applied to council for deferred payment funding, but they are proving difficult :(

Just to add, I heard of someone who became so desperate* for SS to act, she finally told them that if they didn’t do something NOW, she was going to take her parent (with dementia) to A&E and leave her/him there.

Only then did they step in.
Perhaps an extreme case, but the sad reality of being reliant on SS.
*only those who’ve had to cope with it will usually understand just how stressful and exhausting dementia can be.

It’s also a terrible and ironic pisstake. People often try to justify it by splitting everyone into “people who work hard all their lives to be able to leave their children something” and “people who don’t work and doss about and get it all free”, when the world isn’t that black and white at all. The carers working damn hard in those care homes the OP doesn’t want her parents to have to pay for are likely to be people (let’s face it, women) who don’t come from wealth, can’t afford to buy their own home, and barely make ends meet, let alone save much. But yet some people think these same carers should pay more income tax, more VAT, more council tax, so that the grown children of the people whose every need they take care of can inherit the sort of money and property they can only dream of?

4500 a month is actually on the low side you’re getting a good deal. 6000 a month + is standard in London as the SE.

This is why those private residential apartments for older people are so popular. I know they are a rip off. But an older friend who is beginning to struggle with organising maintenance on her house is looking to buy one. They are really the only option out there for people beginning to struggle slightly.

💐Worth considering. My other DB had POA which made things much easier. Hope you manage to sell soon, though.

Luckily Mum lives in a small town that is popular for older people and so there is A LOT of competition when it comes to care homes!

👋👋👋

I don’t disagree with this Twenty

However if it’s done as per my previous posts ( which I was referring to only ) it’s hard and expensive to prove.

Its all about timing

but it’s also all about reasoning. It cannot ever be assumed someone is deliberately offloading assets to avoid care Home fees as in this country we are

Innocent before Proven Guilty……..Always!!

What about some of the the poorly paid care workers who will be looking after your superbly 'hard working' parents? On tiny wages?

I guess some of these are the 'types' you would consider haven't 'worked hard enough' to have got enough assets to sell?

I don't want to have sell our house to pay fees but my kids know it's possible. I wouldn't dream of looking down my nose at others who don't have that financial luxury

You misunderstand the standard of proof required.

Well, @TakemedowntoPotatoCity, I have not said I’d be ‘happy’ for dh and I to leave our kids with nothing - but I have said that, if my FIL needs to go into a care home, we want his savings and investments to go to making sure he is as comfortable and happy as possible for as long as possible, and if that means little or no money for dh and his brother to inherit, we are happy with that - and this isn’t just me saying it, it’s what dh and his brother are saying too.

In my mid twenties for about 12 years we all used to club together to pay my nans private care home top-up after the money from her house sale was gone. No way would we have left her in council care, we had to pay 2000 a month top up for the nice care home and we did it as a family. Looks like we will need to do it for my parents too, it's what you do for family.

I wonder how the system will work in the future though as less and less people are able to afford to buy a home.
There has been and continues to be an increase in renters.
How will the Council pay for the care of this increasing number in say 30,40, 50 or more years time.
There may be less elderly proportionally ?? but also less kids being born too.
( if things carry on as they are )

There needs to be a complete shake up of the system as it doesn’t pan out for the future at all.

This is the value with them having funds. We were able to move MIL quickly into respite where she went downhill and then straight into a care home. Without money we would have been waiting for months.

There is no 7 year rule connected with deprivation of assets; they are not limited to a 7 year period and can investigate as far back as they would like to go, if they believe the assets have been transferred in anticipation of needing care and to avoid paying for it.

The 7 year rule you may be thinking of is in relation to inheritance tax - if someone has gifted their property or a part of it more than 7 years before their death, then no inheritance tax will payable by the deceased’s estate.

Most of those people will inherit homes.
Only a tiny percentage of elderly people go into care homes.