AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

@DrPrunesqualer I am confused myself.
My comment was saying that if an elderly couple pass on their home to children, and the elderly couple carry on living in the house, it will be seen as deprivation of assets. You might get away with it if the elderly couple pay a market rent to the children who now own the house.

You can’t spend it when you’re dead
Enjoy it while you’re alive

👍 I wasn’t picking up on the connection

My MIL didn’t pay any rent to my dh and didn’t have to according to her solicitor.
He just paid for maintenance

You are correct that they have to prove that giving money away was done solely or mainly to DOA and that can be difficult to prove. There are plenty of other reasons why people might give money/assets which are solely or mainly for other reasons too.

But you have consistently said that LAs can't, or won't go back further than 7 years (not true), and I assure you that they can and DO.

You are quoting your personal experience from 13 years ago. LAs are having to look more closely at the situation as costs have soared. The OP is looking for advice and you telling her basically, it'll all be fine and don't worry about it is BAD advice. Sorry

Quite simply the law defines deprivation of assets. If you try to give way or otherwise dispose of assets at a time when you can reasonably expect to need care, then it’s deprivation of assets. The LA will investigate thoroughly and if they find deprivation of assets they will refuse to fund the element of care those assets would have contributed to - in other words they would treat you as though you still had them and assess on that basis. Not to mention that trying to move your parents’ property into your own name would look very much like financial abuse of vulnerable people for your own ends. Because that’s exactly what it is.

It's easy to prevent care home fees and keep all that lovely dosh for yourself.

You give up work/life and care for your parents until they both die at home. You can train so you have all the skills required to look after them and District Nurses will be able to give injections if they require them before they shuffle off this mortal coil.

Local authorities are now much more aggressive around deprivation of assets, and are likely to become even more so. It used to be easier to get around this than it is now. And it will get tougher.

Gently but this. And your parents deserve their care needs - at home or otherwise- to be prioritised. Of course if you chose to uppirt them / provide the care they need then full time care may never be needed.

I work for Adult Social Care.

We will go after people who intentionally hide their assets to avoid care home fees. We have and will take family members to court to get the funds back.

We have cases open from years ago that we are still pursuing.

So don't think that you will get away with it. Because there is a good chance you won't.

So you're asking all of us to pay for your parents' care, so that you can inherit their house? It's a bit of a cheek tbh.

Plus most people do NOT go into a care home. Most people stay at home with carers coming in to give personal care. If you rely on government funded carers this will be giving you microwave food, wash, dress, toilet, then in bed again. It will be the absolute basics and very hurried. If you have money you can pay for carers to spend time to look after you properly and even take you out for the day.

It’s also important that partners of kids that inherit the first parents assets sign away all interest in those assets.
If there’s a divorce whilst the second parent is still alive and living in the house it can get tricky re asset declaration.

Piss take isn’t it

I have heard of adult children divorcing and the parents house being included in the assets of the divorce settlement.

People have mentioned owning property as Tenants in Common. My parents did this in about 1999, when both were in good health and each left their half of the house to my sibling and I in their Wills. Other parent had a lifetime interest in the house.
DM died in 2005, shortly after she died DF had a heart attack and had surgery, followed a year later by a stroke. in 2011 DF needed to go into care. At that time, SS were asking questions about the House. They wanted to investigate Mum's will with regard to deprivation of assets, the Social Worker was relentless and unpleasant. 12 years after the WIll was made and 6years after she died. We had to involve DF's solicitor.
@Watermelonsuns I think your chances of not being investigated for deprivation of assets if they gift you the house are zero.

You are making assumptions here that the needs can be met. You are also making assumptions that the home you want will have space. This is not necessarily always the case and my family has personal experience of a self funder who had no choice where to go due to their needs and also lack of space.
One of my parents went into a care home for end of life and therefore did not pay. Some other residents were self funded. Some others were council funded and some involved a top up. The rooms were the same. The staff were the same. The food was the same. The care was the same.
Many people have this idea that if you are a self funder you go to a nice plush home and if you are council funded you end up in a dive. My family experience of this could not be further from the truth. They're cutwork currently paying £5500ish for a home that they did not choose in an area that is not local.

I understand your point completely but moving the house to your name would be, as everyone else has said depravation of assets. It's very hard when you look at your parents and see that they are getting older and older and their needs are changing.

Agree

OPs parents have left this all far too late.

Absolutely agree
All the homes we looked at had different funders
Only one had space
My MIL was one of two that paid for themselves out of about 30 or so.
Most were council funded

My MIL didn’t get anything different, no silver service 🤣

The home that my husband is in has a mixture of self funding residents and residents who are fully or partially funded by the local authority. There is no difference in the quality of care the residents receive.

My husband has no assets, but he still pays a contribution of his bills. Each resident undergoes a rigorous financial assessment to see how much of the care fees they can pay.

Please stop perpetuating the myth that people who self fund receive better care than those who are funded fully or partly by the local authority.

My sympathies entirely, that's so difficult for you - are you able to do some sort of finance from the house until it sells?
As for my family, we were very, very lucky to find an excellent facility in London, where DM had a flat with carers, association with other residents for meals and social events. I cannot thank enough the people who facilitated this when we were at an all-time low as my DB, who had been DM's carer, hanged himself in her flat. Whether that trauma had anything to do with the help we eventually got, I am not sure. I hope not, since it seems so unfair.

As family we paid for carers overnight for my father in law. This meant he could stay at home until he died, which is what he wanted.
A friend has her and her siblings on a rota sleeping overnight at their mothers.

Exactly
In those cases I would say whoever drew up the will was at fault for not advising on this.
I signed away all my rights as a spouse when my dh inherited.
My MIL was very embarrassed to ask but I absolutely agreed it was the right thing for me to do.

Let's not forget those people who go in as an emergency case. This happened to my grandmother when she was elderly she could no longer look after herself properly and it all came to a head one day when she fell. She was of the generation where women stayed at home and my grandad died many years before so she had no money she lived in a council house.
She lived in that care home until she died several years later. Council funded. She had no assets. Couldn't have asked for better care.

This isn't something any of us could afford, and I live two hours away and Mum's home is also one bedroom!