AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

You’ll get battered on MN, but I do understand. It’s hard to watch the home your parents worked so hard for go on care home fees when they paid tax all their lives. Especially when other people who have never worked or paid tax get their care for free.
it’s not a fair system, no matter what anyone says.

Why not then the rest of the taxpayers can look after you when you need it

No one wants cancer or dementia but these are realities that need paying for and your parents don't get to opt out of that. The reality is that some illnesses are paif for entirely out of public funds, other illnesses are paid for by the individual. It isn’t fair that children of parents with a similar amount of savings she have such different potential inheritances. OK inheritance is itself unjust, but cure that by revising inheritance tax, not by the random chance of depriving people of their entire savings at £50,000 or more per year.

I'm going with you 😂

We are the elderly parents in the scenario. Started with zilch, but prioritised buying a home, mainly by both of us working, never on high wages. It’s not valuable in comparison to most, our ‘estate’ would fall below inheritance tax levels, and if we do need care homes, the capital won’t last long! We both hope we don’t need residential care.

Fortunately, our DC are not in need of an inheritance, but it would be nice to give them some of what we scrimped for.

I was coming on to say this. Your parents needs to sever the joint tenancy on their home. And then to make Wills, possibly in the form of a Discretionary Trust which would scoop up all assets in the sole name of the person who has died. If there was an IHT issue I would include an immediate post-death interest in favour of the surviving spouse (right to income and right to remain in the house)

If I was advising them I would probably recommend they split their savings up too so that very little was in their joint names. Usually joint accounts pass automatically to the surviving account holder on the first death.

I know people sometimes don't like discussing this sort of thing, particularly with their children, but it could ringfence at least some of the assets, assuming that both parents don't require care in the future.

The above advice is not deprivation of assets.

You also need to bear in mind that a local authority will look at the timing and motivation of any gift and they should not assume that any gift was made in order to avoid care charges. There could be other reasons behind the gift.

The Ombudsman has issued guidance to local authorities about this.

https://www.lgo.org.uk/assets/attach/6292/DoA-F.pdf

Care home fees can be enormous. My late DM's fees were 1200 pm
Did you mean a week. My DM fees are £1850. a week.

I don't have a problem with people paying for care home fees out of their own assets. What I have a problem with is how eye wateringly expensive it is. The staff earn very little but the owners earn a lot!!
Also, the ultra wealthy can afford financial advisors to help with inheritance tax planning, trusts, care home fees etc so I think it's fine for others to consider financial planning too (within the law of course!).

Pray, do tell me why?
I have several friends and acquaintances who have parents renting out their houses to pay for care home fees.
Another option is to sell the house, buy a flat in a sheltered (extra care) accommodation and use the excess funds from the property sale to pay for carers.

Ridiculous isn’t it? Good care costs money and we have to pay one way or another if we want it.

Higher - £2,000 per week here - they've just gone up.

Once they are down to £23,000, the LA will make a contribution, but will expect the person to continue to run down their savings and to pay the LA the whole of their pensions apart from a tiny allowance. Once they are down to £14,000, they no longer have to contribute from savings but will still have to hand over almost all their pension.

£14,000 doesn’t seem a lot when your parents’ next door neighbours’ children inherit a £300,000 house.

The British desire for low taxes, expensive public services, and someone else to pay for their old age care, is too well established for any logical solution to be found.

I appreciate where this info is coming from but the point is councils must prove deliberate deprivation of assets to avoid care fees.
As my pp,
If there’s been a time spam and no health reason to assume care home needs then the actual workings of the policy fall apart as Councils can’t afford to take you to court if they don’t have proof.

This was fully explained to us by our Council when my MIL needed care
as I said she used up other assets instead but they couldn’t take her family home as they couldn’t prove deprivation and wouldn’t / couldn’t take legal action against her because of the cost. If they lost aswell they’d have to pay her legal fees as well as their own.

Like many things it’s all very well and good making laws, but the actual working of them by Councils don’t stack up.

I think the point of the £14,000 is so that there is enough left for a burial, grave, service etc.

Oh bugger - I hope the people from my local authority haven't read my post and seen my intentions are to deprive them of assets

Am I the only one who doesn't "work hard" to pay off my mortgage - at least no harder than anyone who rents. If anything, my monthly mortgage payments are a lot less than the rent some people are paying on almost identical flats in my area..

Not really. OP is asking how her parents can go into a care home for free, because she wants her inheritance.

No mention of caring for them herself, no mention of paying for carers to attend their home so they can live there until they die. Just 'how can I protect MY inheritance'

Are their care needs quite extensive
My MILs were £750 approx a week in 2012 ( Kent )
She didn’t have extensive needs.
My father also was quoted £750 approx in 2014 ( Hertfordshire )

Or have the fees just sky rocketed in the last 10 years

Also for @Iloveeverycat

You may have earned the same over your lifetime as someone who bought their home, but chose to spend your income differently. They may have had to pay far more in repayments (especially when mortgage rates were 15%). They will also have had maintenance costs, like roof repairs, replacement boilers etc to factor in. But even when your savings and retirement income are the same, you will be charged far less for the same residential care because they own their home.

What relevance are fees 12 years ago to what people pay today?

No in a residential home mainly washing, dressing and help getting around. No nursing care. Not safe to be on her own at home due to keep falling.

If you own property it has to be sold to pay for any care you might need. Them’s the rules

Dementia care home. She is able to dress, wash and feed herself. And able to walk. She is just unsafe and delusional.

Care fees probably go up in line with house prices.
The function of the care home is to liquidize the assets of the elderly which are tied up in property and then siphon them off into their own coffers.