P1 boy peeing in a bin - more to it ?

[AleenaM]

At pick up teacher said son was very upset at lunch and after buy not willing to tell anyone why, and saying he is not ready. After some time he said to the teacher and I that it's to do with not wanting to do some activity. Now at bedtime after me making jokes about not wanting to do the activity he said it wasn't that, he just said that and he is too scared to tell me why he was upset. After a lot of pushing he said he peed in a bin at the toilet school, but I worry that there could be more to it, like someone asking him to do this, more than just peeing in a bin happening etc. For now I've said thanks for telling me, promised not to tell anyone and said that if he remembers more, he should tell me.

Feel worried that he had made up lie (activity) instead of saying what had happned. Also if it was just peeing in the bin why would he be so upset about it and want to keep it to himself. I also feel he's leaving out details like who else was there and what did they say, ie did they laugh etc (he says they said nothing). For background he is struggling a little bit with boy relationships in primary, including recently an older boy from his composite class putting pressure on him to do /not do things /spend time just with him etc.

Am I just paranoid ? What other questions to ask tomorrow, or what things or red flags to look out for.

Personally I wouldn't panic. I remember my Dd in p1 kicked someone's pen under the unit and didn't tell them. She cried every night for about a week until she finally told me! They just build things up in their head.

Obviously keep an eye out and see if he exhibits any more anxiety etc but I wouldn't be too worried. The older boy can only be, what? 5/6? It's totally normal for them to be a bit possessive and tbh weird at this age. Doesn't mean your ds accepts it of course but it also doesn't mean anything sinister is going on.!

My son is almost 6 so the older child is maybe 7.

For more background, we've had an issue 2 years ago with an older boy making my son take part in inappropriate sexual behaviour for their ages (4 and 6 at that time ), it's all been dealt with and went no contact with that family but I've never ever recovered so stories about doing things in the bathroom which are outside of how the bathroom is to be used freak me out, as well as any stories about influence from older children. So this is the angle I'm coming from

Are there several toilets? Perhaps it was dirty and he didnt want to use it.

When I read the start of your post I wondered if he had been exposed to anything sexual as these out of the ordinary toileting behaviours can be linked. Plus he has a lot of secretiveness and shame linked to it which makes it seem less like impulsive behaviour or horsing around. Did he get any support at the time? Does the school offer play therapy? Although I'm not sure what P1 means to be honest but I assume he is little and just starting at school.

Tbh I don’t think late night on the internet is the place for this, all kinds of wierdos about. For any genuine thing, NSPCC is great for advice.

Maybe he was worried someone saw, or he knows it would get him in trouble/ his peers might mock him.
As long as he knows he should just use the toilet normally. Maybe you should ask why he peed in the bin?

I'm sorry but I have to get advice somewhere. I will call nspcc too but their wait time is long and this is not that serious/of that nature as of yet, they deal with truly important things not peing in a bin. I'm just looking to find what else should I have said to make my son be comfortable talking & what things to look out for in regards to being influenced by others or tellings lies etc.

I think possibly one of the things is he didn't like me asking at pickup in front of this teacher and other class.

I’m not sure you should have promised not to tell anyone, op. Surely someone at school needs to know? I would have thought, especially with the background of an older child previously having involved your ds in inappropriate behaviour, that you should be keeping the teacher informed and explaining why your ds was upset on this occasion. The teachers are in the best position to monitor things, if you’re worried. You can assure your ds that the other children won’t be told.

He has said it's something private and he will only tell me if I promise not to tell his teacher, which made me think he was embarrassed. I didn't at this point know what he wanted to say nor had I been in this position before. He usually says he wants to tell me somehting private if its about having a toilet accident.

Regarding previous incident, that happened during a playdate with a friend outside of his education circle, and not at school and I have no plans to tell the school about that incident, but it influences my anxieties so to speak.

Wonder if he didn't want to go to the actual toilets because something/someone he didn't like was there or something frightening happened to him in the toilets. Not suggesting anything sexual necessarily because it would cover old school bullies of the flush your head down the toilet type.

It would explain why he urinated in a bin - to avoid going to the toilets.

To encourage him to open up, you could try getting two toys (little people or characters) and play with them, get one of them to say “oops I just peed in the bin! That was silly, never mind! I’m going to pee in the toilet next time.” Then the other one could say “Oops I just peed on my foot! Oh no that was silly! My foot isn’t a toilet!” You could see if he wants to join in playing. Maybe he’ll add to the game and give a hint of what he’s thinking or feeling, or reveal what happened, or maybe he’ll just feel better seeing it “normalised” by characters acting like it’s no big deal.
Is he quite sensitive? It could be he simply feels shame that he peed in the wrong place. My son is very sensitive and I can imagine him feeling that way.

He peed in the bin for whatever reason and was embarrassed which is perfectly normal.

What isnt okay is the presumption that he may have been coerced (not my darling son he would never do anything like that), that he did it because he was told (he is struggling to make male friends) and that there may be more to it.

Long gone are the days when you'd tell your kid off for pissing in the bin

And OP, sorry, but you can still tell the teacher without telling your son you told her Some secrets aren't meant to be kept.

Oh I don't think he's too innocent to do this, it's just he would've reacted differently and had a naughty laugh and willingly told me almost bragging about it, not going into being upset the whole day state.

No mystery
Peeing in the bin is gross. At age 6 he will know he was bang out of order and rightly be worried someone is going to tell the staff and he will be in a world of trouble.
Why did he do it? Showing off or can't be bothered to go to the toilets.
I hope you told your son how entitled and disgusting his behaviour was! Doesn't sound as though you did though.

As the incident happened at school I really think you should be telling the teachers.
You have said that is all he mentioned, but you don't know whether he was alone, the reason behind this or if others saw. If they did there is a good chance they will have told a parent if they didn't tell the teacher 'oh guess what happened in the toilet, Billy peed in the bin', and they might report this back to the teacher who will then speak to the child.

I also think the school should know about the other incident as there could be further support they could offer, and also look out for any signs this trauma still affects him.

Surely, when the cleaners come to empty the bins it will be discovered and then the school will be trying to find out who it was. I would guess there would be strong words in assembly or in class so how will he feel then? It would be better if you spoke to the Head Teacher ASAP to avoid this embarrassment.

I'm sorry but that 'game' sounds really weird.

Also when he told you he was upset about doing an activity , why were you then joking about it?

It may do, but it often works. It's how we discovered my 6yo dd was avoiding school because of her teacher (she's ND) - she buried the pretend teacher (small character) in a tub of rice while her character stomped on her to make sure she couldn't get out!

Op, there are any number of reasons he may have peed in the bin. All the cubicles were full and he was desperate; someone dared him to do it; someone threatened him; the toilets were dirty; he did it to 'impress' a friend etc. By pushing him, he may never tell you. With dd at that age, we just had to wait till she was calm and relaxed and felt like opening up to us.

I think I probably would tell the school though and explain that your ds has been very explicit that you don't tell anyone but you're worried about the behaviour and wonder if they've noticed anything. As a pp has said, as soon as the urine is discovered, there will be a big issue about it which may make your ds even more anxious.

I can see several possible scenarios.

He went to the toilets chose, for whatever reason, to pee in the bin, now feels guilty.

Same scenario and he was seen by someone who is 'going to tell!, now feeling worried.

He went to the toilet, someone else was in messing around and he joined in, now feeling guilty, knows he shouldn't have.

He went to the toilet, someone else was in and they have threatened/forced him to do it, now feeling scared and guilty.

None of them are good feelings to have and can be upsetting, even when you've chosen go do something and it's your consequence.

NEVER promise to keep things secret. I say I can't promise that but I will only say something if I'm worried uou might get hurt .... type comment. I would have a conversation regarding this, but separate from this topic, and have it as expected that sometimes we do have to say something if something bad etc is happening.

Worry is a ridiculous thing that can quickly make even a small issue feel all consuming so he coukd be overwhelmed.

I'd ask to speak to the teacher privately to check if anything else going on and I would tell them. As others have said a cleaner will already have highlighted it. Behaviour in toilets at school can be weird at times! We had stuff like this and as adults you'd be WHY would you even think to do that?!

@Whatafustercluck Play is how kids process things.
Many times I’ve overheard my kids playing and learned a lot about what’s on their mind and what they’re processing.

Sorry I should have tagged @CaptainMyCaptain

I've had to ask him again about it and he is so uncomfortable bless. He's finally said another boy had done this some days prior and told him not to tell anyone (he doesn't know the boy). We've talked about needing to tell his teacher but he's mortified he'll get in trouble. How do I approach this so that I don't breach his trust of talking to me in the future.

The school would not have a stern talk to anyone about this nor discuss in assembly - too relaxed ( in a bad way) in many ways, I would also absolutely not trust them enough to tell them previous personal incidents in my son's life before school and outside school. Anyway sounds like this one is not related to the past and its just from seeing someone else.

I think a poo had been found in a toilet last term and I never heard anyhting of that. Sounds like someone else peed in the bin some time before and there was no consequence either.

If you don't trust the school why on Earth are you keeping your son in it? Also did you tell him it was naughty and someone will have had to clean that up?