To think that addiction is a disease?

[feryon98]

Was having a discussion with a few coworkers about this and it seems to offend them when people claimed addiction is a disease and they said people with actual diseases don't have a choice.

Yes, addiction it's self inflicted but there are many diseases which are caused by an initial choice (e.g Eating unhealthy can cause Type II diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure,).

Exactly this. Addiction is not a one size fits all; there are so many many variables. There is a great deal of ignorance on this thread.

TidyCrow · Today 04:11
My experiences of people with substance abuse disorders have generally involved people with pre-existing mental health disorders, many of whom sought medical assistance (but there was a missed diagnosis, or other institutional failings) and turned to illicit drugs, or overuse of legal drugs, for relief from their symptoms

I’m sure that is true but I’ve also known a lot of people who have got and stayed sober who in sobriety have not suffered from mental health disorders.

It's still just a person trying to fight against what their mind is trying to tell them constantly though isn't it. It should just be a "choice" to eat, it's not hard for the rest of us, why can't they do it? That's exactly what you sound like.

@Firefly1987 you might consider that some people who have been impacted by living with (being parented by ) an addict will have a different point of view.

The addiction narrative kind of feeds into the idea that all addicts are in the gutter whereas many are living day to day destroying lives around them and passing on trauma through the generations.

Sometimes people who have experienced this kind of upbringing find it hard to view their parents are just blameless victims of a terrible disease - they chose to have children and then behaved incredibly selfishly. That’s hard to get over

But not if you’re an alcoholic. That’s the difference.

Sometimes people who have experienced this kind of upbringing find it hard to view their parents are just blameless victims of a terrible disease - they chose to have children and then behaved incredibly selfishly. That’s hard to get over.

Very true, @Scentmas, addiction and alcoholism wreck lives. Al-anon can help a lot.

It is completely different, anorexics have body dysphoria. Not eating doesn't make them high or pissed. The reasons are different.

Addicts start because they like getting shitfaced on whatever substance is their thing, it feels good. Then apparently they can't stop for a whole host of reasons. 'Trauma' is often mentioned despite every other person having endured challenges to a varying degree and not becoming an addict.

It isn't helpful to liken addiction to anorexia, it is enabling the addict and then perpetuates the they 'can't help it' excusing.

No one has them in a headlock forcing it down them.

The disease does though. It has you in a headlock.

it’s not possible for someone who is not alcoholic to imagine how alcohol affects an alcoholic. Because for most people they will think about how they felt when drinking, how much they had, when they chose not to drink etc etc.

My position is that alcohol has a different effect on an alcoholic. Chemically. Psychology. I can’t prove this. I’m postulating based on my own lived experiences.

'The disease does though. It has you in a headlock'.

No it doesn't. The person's own lack of self control is the problem not 'the disease'.

I once knew someone who would fire off deranged nasty social media comments. Did the 'disease' do that too? Funny how cancer or heart disease doesn't make folk behave like twats isn't it.

Well no, heart disease and cancer don’t. But psychosis, schizophrenia, dementia and diseases that affect the brain will do that.

'Trauma' is often mentioned despite every other person having endured challenges to a varying degree and not becoming an addict.

This is true - and if trauma definitely caused alcoholism then every soldier who fought and survived WW1 would be alcoholics.
I think it is largely genetic and I don’t think blaming circumstances or people is helpful - apart from anything else the clock can’t be turned back so your parents don’t get divorced, or you weren’t bullied at school or whatever.
Accept there is a problem and deal with the problem as it stands now.
However, unfortunately in many cases, easier said than done.

Yes of course and dementia, schizophrenia and actual diseases like that do indeed explain unsociable behaviour. Consuming substances to make you feel good do not.

It’s incomprehensible I know. Because the damage is so severe. But sadly it’s not as simple as greed, selfishness and lack of discipline. If it was a choice then it wouldn’t be a disease I agree with you.

And I’m posting based on my lived experience and thso is why reasoning doesn’t resonate with me. I feel it’s often a cop out. My mother made shitty choices throughout her life (after having a nice childhood herself so no trauma)

Bad choices are made all of the time, up and down the country, by millions. It can’t always be attributed to trauma. People make bad choses with the food they eat. I’d like to have a takeaway every day but I don’t because I know how bad that would be for my health.

My Mother smoked right through her pregnancies, never openers windows and gays utterly selfish. Same with the drink. She obviously got so much joy out of the affects that this became so important to her and that’s it. Selfish. She never bothered to even seek any help because again she was selfish. Personal responsibility has to play a role and thso is the get out clause that some of them will use to justify it. “Well it’s destined to me, it’s what happens, I’ve got zero control over it” Yes you bludy have!

To add because Ben an alcoholic isn’t illegal it’s seems a lot of people have sympathy and how lovely, yet where is the sympathy for the kids who have to endure the trauma of being brought up by one? They are neglected, left to fend for themselves and still the outpouring is for the ‘poor’ alcoholic. Make me sick reading some of these comments.

'But sadly it’s not as simple as greed, selfishness and lack of discipline'

It is and it is only once every addict admits that and accepts that will any progress be made. 'Diseases/brains are different/ booze makes them feel different to other people'? Nope.

No, it’s not a disease, and neither is obesity. The main reason that obesity is suddenly being classified as a ‘disease’, is that funding for treatment options would be reduced if it wasn’t.

However, it’s unhelpful in a lot of ways as it gives people a ‘victim’ mentality, and reduces motivation to try. However, people like this label because they think it absolves them of responsibility.

In the same vein, you could classify paedophilia as a ‘disease’ but you can bet that people would be less willing to see them as victims!

I understand and have a lot of empathy for what they've been through-I'm sure that's the case for everyone here. I'm trying to give the OTHER side of it. But if people want to believe addicts are just evil terrible people laughing at how selfish they are screwing everyone over then not much I can do to change their minds.

I'm just trying to point out that addicts are struggling and suffering themselves at the same time as causing immense harm to others. Not saying they're blameless victims.

I can empathise, truly. And yes your mother did not appear to put her children’s welfare above her own. It takes a lot to put down the drink. And a lot of people never manage it. Or else can’t stay sober.
it’s so destructive and hellish for families. I really do appreciate this. I think this is why I try to make the point that despite all of the damage, the hell, losing family and friends all of it. Sometimes the person cannot stop. The disease kills.
I managed to stop. My best friend didn’t. She phoned me telling me the doctor told her if she doesn’t stop drinking she has 6 months to live. She couldn’t stop. She died there on her sofa a few months later aged 40.
it’s a hellish illness. I don’t feel it’s an excuse or cop out to call it that.

Well you certainly seem to be an expert in all manner of mental health disorders. Maybe the rehab centres can employ you to go round and shout at all the addicts about how selfish, evil and pathetic they are. I'm sure that'd help, it's not like heaping on the shame and guilt is likely to drive someone back to their addiction or anything. AA are obviously doing their approach all wrong for clapping people who admit they're alcoholics or saying how long they've managed to stay sober.

It is completely different, anorexics have body dysphoria. Not eating doesn't make them high or pissed. The reasons are different.

My point was that nothing is an easy "choice" when your brain is constantly telling you to do (or not do) something. It's incredibly hard to fight against that voice day in and day out. You make it sound like it's so easy. It doesn't matter what reason led a person to that place. Not every addiction makes anyone high or pissed either. Like I've said before I don't take substances or drink alcohol but struggle with other addictions. In fact there's no way in hell I'd drink 3 glasses of wine as I'd be horribly drunk and feel awful the next day. Just wouldn't do it to myself (but other things I would-e.g binge eating) it's very easy for me not to drink. I guess I have more self-control when it comes to alcohol than some of the morally superior ones on here! We all struggle with different things though so I'd never take it for granted that I'm not an alcoholic because I know I so easily could be.

'it's not like heaping on the shame and guilt is likely to drive someone back to their addiction or anything'

Ah so shame and guilt now drives them back to whatever substance gets them high and euphoric, not just the 'disease' and alleged trauma? Got it.

Yes I maybe could give addict rehab staff some tips, starting with stop perpetuating the 'it's not your fault' line, 'it's a disease', 'you can't help it' and tell them it is your fault and you can help it, bit of empowerment instead of the victim thing. What they do with that is up to them but let's use any funds and resources for actual diseases.

This is a very important point.

It reminds me of back in the day at school, when teachers would say to students they wouldn’t make anything of their lives, they’re thick bla bla bla and the self full filling prophecy where the child believed that to be true so didn’t aim for more because of what the ‘experts’ say.

That’s was awful…

Now things have gone full circle and it’s trying to be so inclusive and PC with ‘be kind’ rhetoric, when it’s actually perpetuated the problem. The softly softly it’s a disease bla bla literally take the onus, responsibility and accountability away and makes it easier to think there is no hope because it’s a ‘disease’. That’s not helpful for people with addiction.

I mentioned a couple of times in previous posts about how people would feel if their partner was a sex addict and slept with 30 people behind their back. The doctor says it’s a disease, an addiction so it’s not a choice (which is what I keep hearing on here) Would those who are advocating people don’t chose to be alcoholics, still feel the same about their cheating sex addicted partner? Funny how no one answered. I suspect they wouldn’t be ok with that but they won’t say because that’s a contradiction to everything they’ve argued about alcoholics!

I feel sorry for her children. She made her own bed, her poor children had zero choice in any of it. We see it from different angles but well done to you for getting sober, it shows it can be done.

I think especially when it's an addiction to drugs there is little sympathy because drugs are illegal. The addict decided to buy an illegal substance (supporting crime and trafficking in the process) and in so doing mess their own life up.

Same with cigarettes - why take even the first puff when the health warnings are absolutely everywhere?

Things like alcohol addictions (or food, gaming etc if the definition of addict stretches that far) are much more understandable since they're socially acceptable substances that almost everyone has tried at least once. People are much more likely to think they could easily be in the addict's shoes and so show more sympathy and support.