To think that addiction is a disease?

[feryon98]

Was having a discussion with a few coworkers about this and it seems to offend them when people claimed addiction is a disease and they said people with actual diseases don't have a choice.

Yes, addiction it's self inflicted but there are many diseases which are caused by an initial choice (e.g Eating unhealthy can cause Type II diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure,).

This just hits me of not taking accountability. I know that’s awfully blunt, and perhaps you’re not ready to admit it, but it’s always a choice. That’s why people quit drinking, because ultimately they chose to.

I think you are correct.there is alcoholism in my husbands family. Theee of his younger cousins are addicts. Two recovered. I think the whole family has jumped on the 'disease' thing to make them feel less guilty but also to absolve them and the wider family of blame. The two recovered addicts went through a lot when they were younger. Dad walked out. Mum didn't cope and died young. There's a lot related not just to them but traumatic decisions made around them by others that caused this. It's much easier to say 'it's a disease' that admit mistakes were made. T

I completely agree and I’m the adult child of an alcoholic. All those commenting on here didn’t have to suffer at the expense of their parents selfishness. The ones who have no direct experience of it personally, yet still insist it’s a disease and alcoholics don’t have a choice so they can’t help it. The first choice is to say I’m going to stop and go and seek support. Makes my blood boil listening to all the know alls on here who haven’t experienced it!

'I think if someone says addiction is a choice - I agree with a previous poster that you haven’t found anything to which you’re addicted. When the pain becomes so constant and so god awful that you’ve considered suicide, you’ll take the pain medication'

Oh come off it. Who doesn't like the feeling after a couple of drinks, who doesn't like the floaty feeling after taking codeine for an injury? We could all take prescription meds every single day for the pleasant feeling but we choose not to.

You need to learn how to discuss issues without flinging about insults. It is a contentious issues, 2 camps the enablers/excusers and those who've experienced lying manipulative addicts on more than one occasion and refuse to pat them on the head.

I think you should perhaps read the rest of the replies before you call anyone names or call anyone out! I share the exact same view as @Gloriia and if you read my posts for example then come back and tell me that my poor mother was a victim then I’d laugh in your face and say “Tell me you don’t have experience of an alcoholic mother without telling me”

I don’t care what those with no experience think or how it’s classified but no one will tell me my mother had no choice. The first choice seeking help. Regarding it being a disease, well now being obese is a disease and I think part of the reason it’s been labelled as such has been to try and stop societal stigma, so they’ve widened the brackets to be inclusive.

Regarding pain relief addiction, that’s more understandable, as no one wants to sit with severe physics pain. I think in America it’s not generally the rich who are unconscious on the streets high as a kit and addicted, it’s usually the poorest in society haven’t got a pot to piss in so life is very tough over there with not much hope unless you’re wealthy.

I think addiction to be a complex combination of causes and symptoms. Would I consider it a disease? In some cases, yes, where genetic predisposition is strong. That's not to say I think other cases are lesser, but perhaps more akin to a trauma disorder where addiction begins as a coping mechanism before inevitably morphing into an illness.

I also think there are two key elements to addiction; chemical dependence, and emotional dependence. I think many substance addicts suffer from a combination of both, whereas addictions such as gambling are psychological. I believe that anything that causes a dopamine hit can effectively become addictive to the right person, including sex, food, video gaming, and more. Again, that doesn't make them lesser, even though they're different to chemical dependency.

I also believe all addicts deserve empathy and compassion, though it's not always easy to give. I don't think those traumatised and hurt by another's addiction have the obligation to be the ones expressing compassion, though; sometimes empathy comes more easily from professionals and people with a little distance.

I made the point up thread about sex addiction and was wondering how many on here ,who are advocating that addiction can’t be helped and they have no choice etc… Would be supportive if they found out their partner had a sex addiction and slept with 30 women behind their back?!…..

I wonder how many would be as quick to defend them and stay with him and support his through his addiction? I suspect a significantly lower than those who are arguing that there is no choice in addiction!…

It wasn’t meant to be name calling. I was genuinely asking if the person was a troll, as people who are answering on these threads with compassion (which is generally how I recommend living life?!) usually don’t reply with such inflammatory things as “excuses, excuses,” which is so dismissive of addiction, that it’s almost comical.

As for your posts, I had already read them and decided my opinion wouldn’t be of much use to you because you won’t agree or enjoy it: you seem to think that anyone can avoid addiction because your mother was an abusive drinker (which is horrific, and I’m truly sorry) and yet you aren’t, but it sounds like your mother drank to avoid your father’s abuse (and unfortunately that’s how a lot of abuse was ‘dealt’ with before divorce was societally accepted - either drinking or millions of women on barbiturates called ‘mother’s little helpers’). That does not make her abuse of you acceptable in any way; please don’t think I’m saying that.

People who talk about a genetic disposition usually mean there’s been about five generations who have all been alcoholics. I do understand there is a heightened risk when a parent is an alcoholic, I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that maybe it’s a bit of a different battle not becoming an alcoholic yourself when one person in your family is a sloppy, neglectful alcoholic versus when every single member of your family is a “functioning” alcoholic. I don’t know a single person with one alcoholic, abusive parent who went on to become an alcoholic themselves (I’m aware this is anec-data, but obviously this is how we form opinions of the world, just like you formed yours based on your mother); I know about five people whose entire families for at least 3+ generations were alcoholics and they’ve all struggled with addiction.

And yes, my mother was an addict. I was raised by my grandparents after the age of 9.

Yes I agree that self medicating would have been a thing back then but she could have left then things would have improved by default. There were a lot more available housing back then.

My brother having suffered the trauma is now living in a hostel and he’s practically an alcoholic. I have more sympathy for him because of the childhood trauma. I do think he makes silly choices in general and he’s never grown up, but I feel bad for the shit upbringing he had. Is he an alcoholic due to trauma or genetic predisposition? Who knows.

There is help available and that’s why some get past it. If you don’t seek help then that is a choice.

I dont think it matters. Addiction is addiction. It's it own thing. As a sociologist, I actually think the definition of illness has been stretched to complete incoherence at this point, largely by psychiatry (and there are plenty of psychiatrists who agree with me on this).

I think the trauma and modelling probably a bigger thing..
A friend's dad was the life and soul fun dad. The mum had a sour face. What we didn't know was the dad was a functioning alcoholic and died in his 50s from liver disease. Her DB went the same route and also died from a heart attack brought on by alcohol in his 50s. She is addicted to smoking and sugar and has no teeth left from drinking and eating in the night. I have every sympathy for her and at the same time huge frustration. She can't or won't help herself. It's very hard to witness so what you actually experienced must have been dreadful. You are right that there were choices your mum could have made but for whatever reason, she couldn't do that. The alcoholism wasn't something she was able to push beyond.

I’m incredibly sorry to hear about your brother. It sounds like you have a lot of compassion for his possible alcoholism, because you know intimately about his abuse and childhood trauma. I don’t know if it makes a difference to you but I’ve never met anyone addicted to ANYTHING that didn’t have trauma, and often childhood trauma. I’m not saying that’s always the case, just that I’ve found it to be true with people I know. I’ve come to believe that addiction is just another way of your body keeping the score for trauma.

Also, as I don’t know when this was, I don’t how feasible it was for your mum to leave. Maybe you’re absolutely right? Maybe you’re wrong. My maternal grandmother left her first husband (abusive) and she was shunned. She ended up married to my maternal grandfather (alcoholic), and people said he was “a saint” to take on her 3 DC that weren’t his. Can you imagine saying that about step children now?!?

I agree with this. Definitions of disease seems to encompass more things now and I think that was party to prevent social stigma. The problem is, it also seems to take away any personal responsibility. Since obesity has been classified as a disease, some people argue it’s their destiny and how it’s meant to be.

Yes I do have compassion for my brother as I feel sorry for him. He had no chance and he was the one who got the brunt of my dad’s aggression. He’s had no help or support and he’s doing the best he can do. He could go to AA but he’s still got nothing, no money, no house, no sills or job, so I can understand why he thinks fuck it.

Ironically my mother had a nice childhood. My granda was a lovely gentle man, teh polar opposite of my dad. They were financially secure and she wanted for nothing. I wouldn’t feel this much anger a resentment if she’d had our start in life. I’d still be annoyed but less so.

My mother had all the opportunities but made shit decisions time and time again. She got pregnant at 18 (by an absolute bell end waste of space) had my older sibling and would go out and leave them with her parents and party. She then had two kids with the absolute abusive twat that was our dad. He was abusive to his step child (my older sibling) and to his son yet she went on to have me. 3 kids with 2 abusive me, great choice.

I realise not all situations are the same, but she had the best start and upbringing but always made poor choices.

'I was genuinely asking if the person was a troll, as people who are answering on these threads with compassion (which is generally how I recommend living life?!) usually don’t reply with such inflammatory things as “excuses, excuses,”

You live life with compassion yet call me a troll? My 'excuses, excuses' comments was to a poster who said imagine if I'd had an accident and had been on prescription meds for months and got hooked. A. I'd see a GP to reduce and get off them and B. I wouldn't be prescribed opiates long-term anyway without serious supervision from a hcp.

But we aren't really talking about prescription meds, we are talking about booze and recreational drugs. Those of us who have sadly experienced the destructive nature of manipulative liars may well have an issue with anyone enabling or excusing their behaviour so tbf 'excuses excuses' is actually very tame.

It’s lacking compassion to ask if you were a troll? If you aren’t, you aren’t. But if you are a real person, and your comments aren’t rage bait, you do see things in a very black and white way and you’ve made some extremely incendiary comments. This does NOT mean that I find it okay for anyone with an addiction to manipulate or be abusive, and I’m truly sorry if you’ve been on the receiving end of that. Of course that is going to color your view of addiction; it would be impossible for it not to. But my concern seems to be that you think you can “opt out” of basic human psychology; addiction is very much a brain issue,* but just as I don’t believe depression, anxiety, autism, ADHD, or anything else gives you an excuse to be abusive, neither does an addiction.

But yes, if you feel insulted by me questioning if you were a troll, I really am sorry about that; I should have asked you directly and not commented about you at random. And apologies if I don’t reply further - I have a life-limiting condition and I’m really ill today.

I really can’t answer this because I have no idea what time period this was. Obviously if your mother was a child in the 60s or 70s, that’s a lot different to if she was a child in the 1950s. On the surface, without knowing anymore, yes, those are a lot of bad and selfish choices. But without knowing more about her childhood and young adulthood, the availability and legality of abortion and birth control at the time, and other factors, I really can’t judge her. I don’t know anyone who got pregnant at 18 who wasn’t already disadvantaged in some way (poverty, child SA). I do know one girl who had babies VERY young because her parents were emotionally constipated and she wanted a baby to love her; very sad, because she then did just what your mum did, which was leave the child with her parents a lot of the time.

With all that said, none of it gave her an excuse to abuse you. I may not agree that full-blown addiction is a choice, but I also don’t think it’s an acceptable justification for the mistreatment both you and @Gloriia have received from addicts - I’m sorry for both of you, and hope you are healing.

Thank you. The crux of it for me is that made poor choices in general. She smoked which is what killed her ultimately. She smoked through all of her 3 pregnancies and I was born in the 80’s where there was enough info around to know that smoking during pregnancy could harm your baby so at the very least stop during pregnancy but did she heck. The pair of them smoked about 80 a day between them and wouldn’t open the windows (as it’s too cold they said) they’d smoke in the car (as if they couldn’t wait 15/20 mins…..

There were plenty of other parents who smoked, but the majority of them did do it outside or at least out the windows to try to keep the fumes away from their kids. Mine were too selfish to do that, so we lived in a house of blue haze because they had no interest in putting the health needs of their kids above their desires to smoke. Utterly and completely selfish.

I would do anything to keep my children away from harm. They are my priority in every way and that’s why as I why older I can’t understand the poor choices she made as a mother.

I’m sorry. I wish I had more that would’ve been brilliant to say, but pretty much, it’s just that I’m so sorry you had to go through it. Your parents both sound incredibly selfish. I can understand how you would develop the feelings you have after having parents like that, especially the smoking. I was an 80s child as well, and I know what you mean about smoking.

Like I said, I was raised by my grandparents (paternal). When my grandmother found out she was pregnant in 1959, they must have just been at the very beginning of deciding that smoking caused health problems, because she made my grandfather quit cold turkey. I also grew up with very traditional ideas about addiction from them. It was studying psychology annd religion, losing both my grandparents, and being so ill myself that made me view addiction with more of a “there but for the grace of , go I.”

Edited for typo.

Yes, there is absolutely help available. It's right there when we need it.

Within a week of asking for help I was being professionally supported weekly, one-to-one, and a package of care and action was put in place. This included a week's detox with experienced medics and then weekly counselling, again with a qualified psychotherapist. All this was free and one phone call away.

The thing is, I was desperate for it and did exactly as I was told!

I'm so incredibly grateful 🙏🏻

Well if they're in recovery then they are moving forward. And yes they will always be addicts because they know if they go back even just once they won't be able to control themselves again. If that's what it takes then that's what it takes instead of relying on willpower to try and moderate their behaviour-which is probably what they did for years before they had to admit it wasn't working and they have to quit completely. And yes it's bloody hard to do.

I don't care if you think they don't need pats on the back I'm just trying to counter this idea that they're all living the life of riley in their selfishness not giving a damn about anyone else and blissfully happy. Most of us feel deep shame and disgust in ourselves.

I bet you'd be the type of person to tell someone with anorexia to stop being so selfish causing their family worry and just eat a burger.

My experiences of people with substance abuse disorders have generally involved people with pre-existing mental health disorders, many of whom sought medical assistance (but there was a missed diagnosis, or other institutional failings) and turned to illicit drugs, or overuse of legal drugs, for relief from their symptoms.

I don't really care if it's classed as a disease or not - particularly as its not my field - but some of the characterizations in this thread (applied equally to all addicts) are really quite appalling.

Notable, too, that the most prolific of those posters has been persistently defending women who commit sexual assault, on another thread.

Some people are just profoundly morally deficient, I suppose.

Yes, addiction is a disease. It changes the brain’s chemistry and affects decision-making, impulse control, and behavior. Understanding it as a medical condition not a moral failing helps people seek treatment, get support, and focus on recovery without shame.

'I bet you'd be the type of person to tell someone with anorexia to stop being so selfish causing their family worry and just eat a burger

No, I'm not that 'type of person'. Anorexia is a complex eating disorder, a recognised serious mental health issue. How awful that you would conflate addicts with those with serious mental health problems.